Think and Grow Old

Create a study plan, track your progress and hold yourself accountable.
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Tami
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by Tami »

Tryss wrote:What's your answer to white 2 here?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 O X O . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O O . . . .
$$ | . X X X O . . . .
$$ | 1 O X O . O . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Tryss wrote:What's your answer to white 2 here?

My answer is that while preparing the diagram in a hurry I forgot there was a stone on the outside:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B What a difference a stone makes
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 O X O . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O O . . . .
$$ | . X X X O . . . .
$$ | 1 O X O . O . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .[/go]
Thanks, though, for pointing out the errors with the diagram in its original state. I'm still trying to get back up to speed with using L19 again and mistakes can easily happen.

I was just happy to find a way to live during my game. I can see now that 2 is a bigger point than 1 and so Black should start there, as it happens, but I'm still rusty, I'm starting over, and I wanted to make a different point, which was about the pleasure of being able to put the things one practises into a real game.
Last edited by Tami on Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by Ian Butler »

Tami wrote:
Tryss wrote:What's your answer to white 2 here?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 O X O . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O O . . . .
$$ | . X X X O . . . .
$$ | 1 O X O . O . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Tryss wrote:What's your answer to white 2 here?

My answer is that while preparing the diagram in a hurry I forgot there was a stone on the outside:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B What a difference a stone makes
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 O X O . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O O . . . .
$$ | . X X X O . . . .
$$ | 1 O X O . O . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .[/go]
Thanks, though, for pointing out the errors with the diagram in its original state. I'm still trying to get back up to speed with using L19 again and mistakes can easily happen.
Okay that makes a lot of sense. I was also thinking: what am I missing? :)

You've convinced me to get L&D back out of my drawer and start doing it 1 chapter/day, too. Thank you!
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by Tami »

Ian Butler wrote: You've convinced me to get L&D back out of my drawer and start doing it 1 chapter/day, too. Thank you!
:salute:

It's the kind of book one is tempted to dismiss as being a "beginner's book" when one gets into the SDKs, but I'm starting to see it as one of the very best L&D books available. The reason being that it's systematically organised and easy to follow. I've never really had a great handle on its contents, but I'm going to study it until I do, and I won't be surprised if that helps me to get past the 1k barrier at which I was stuck for such a while. (Right now, though, I'm in favour of the short-term target of de-rusting sufficiently to reach 2k again.)

Incidentally, can anybody please tell me whether Cho Chikun's L&D Encyclopedia is organised according to a recognisable plan? I'm thinking of buying it as practise material, but I don't want to be confronted with several thousand problems with a "lucky dip" of themes. That might help once one knows the structure of L&D inside out, but first I want to be able to know a one-space notcher or a straight J when I see one.
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by Bill Spight »

Tryss wrote:What's your answer to white 2 here?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 O X O . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O O . . . .
$$ | . X X X O . . . .
$$ | 1 O X O . O . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Here is my answer.
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by dfan »

Tami wrote:It's the kind of book one is tempted to dismiss as being a "beginner's book" when one gets into the SDKs, but I'm starting to see it as one of the very best L&D books available.
It's the opposite with me! I tried reading Life And Death at around 10k thinking of it as an introductory book, and it made my head swim so hard (once it got past the simple examples) that it nearly put me off go entirely. It's been a long time since I looked at it; I should give it another shot now.
Incidentally, can anybody please tell me whether Cho Chikun's L&D Encyclopedia is organised according to a recognisable plan? I'm thinking of buying it as practise material, but I don't want to be confronted with several thousand problems with a "lucky dip" of themes. That might help once one knows the structure of L&D inside out, but first I want to be able to know a one-space notcher or a straight J when I see one.
The Life and Death Encyclopedia is "just" a big collection of a bunch of positions with only intermittent organization. All About Life and Death, also "by" Cho (I guess these books tend to be ghostwritten, but I don't know about this case) is a much more systematic presentation of corner and side shapes, and incidentally is what I abandoned the Davies book in favor of.

If you like learning from videos, and don't mind paying for it, Guo Juan's Internet Go School has many excellent lectures on a lot of corner and side shapes, along with several hundred problems in her online spaced repetition system (which also costs money). Personally speaking, this is how I finally learned these patterns, but everybody has their own style of learning (and budget).
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by gowan »

Cho's All About Life and Death is structured according to shapes, similar to Davies Life and Death. Cho's book has more different shapes. Cho's book (two volumes) is available from Amazon, however, it is a print-on-demand type scan of the original and several reviewers have commented that the print is not beautifully clear as the original Ishi Press edition was. The Nihon Ki-in dictionary of Life and Death by CHo Chikun has been superseded by a new version by Cho U, which has a lot more information. It is usable even if you know no Japanese just by looking at the diagrams https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E5%9F%BA%E6%9 ... 4818205970
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by Tami »

gowan wrote:Cho's All About Life and Death is structured according to shapes, similar to Davies Life and Death. Cho's book has more different shapes. Cho's book (two volumes) is available from Amazon, however, it is a print-on-demand type scan of the original and several reviewers have commented that the print is not beautifully clear as the original Ishi Press edition was. The Nihon Ki-in dictionary of Life and Death by CHo Chikun has been superseded by a new version by Cho U, which has a lot more information. It is usable even if you know no Japanese just by looking at the diagrams https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E5%9F%BA%E6%9 ... 4818205970
多分張栩の本買うかも知れないけどお金もちではないから決まる前にもう少し研究やりたいと思います。

If the Cho book is anything like the Tesuji dictionary by Yamashita, though, I'd be very tempted. I like the way lots of different techniques are systematically presented in that book. But, as I said above, money isn't as freely copious as it used to be so I have to think much more carefully about new purchases. It makes me sad, really, that while teaching English in Japan I was quite affluent and was able to buy lots of books and other things on a whim, but now that I'm doing something of much more value I'm having a much harder time getting paid (and here's a good time to mention that I have a lovely CD out on Amazon and all other reputable online retailers - plus a few less reputable ones - of beautiful compositions that will enrich your lives... :lol: ).

Ooh, I've just noticed that KGS has promoted me overnight to 2k. That's so sweet of it.
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by Tami »

There are certain things that make life worth living.

The music of Josquin, Beethoven's 9th Symphony, a child's smile, being in love, Earl Grey tea, BBC/HBO Versailles, the insanely Baroque prose of Aron Nimzowitsch...

And now I'm discovering what go is really all about. The aim of the game is to play well. It is very difficult indeed to play well, and there are myriad ways to play well, but the satisfaction from playing to the best of one's ability on any given day far transcends winning and losing.

This is why I've started playing and studying the game again. I have finally comprehended it after nearly twenty years. Learning a tesuji or L&D pattern is not about improving your win rate (which should be 50% anyway), nor about increasing your rank, but because learning a tesuji or L&D pattern is interesting all by itself.

Since my return, I have noticed that KGS has changed in one way: there's a lot more bad behaviour than there used to be, as far as I can see. A few years ago, escapers were few and far between - but it has happened to me quite a few times in the last few weeks. And fewer people greet you properly than before. If only they would understand that go is not a means to an end - it's an end in itself.
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by fireproof »

Tami wrote:The aim of the game is to play well.
That really resonates with me, and I thank you for the reminder!
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by Tami »

Finally, the summer vacation has begun.

I have only two main projects that I wish to work on. Now feels like a heaven-sent opportunity to improve my go. So that's project No. 1. The other is to compose a polychoral Magnificat for a composing competition that I wish to enter.

I'm noticing a real effect from having spent the last few weeks patiently studying with the help of a physical go set. The patterns are actually registering in my mind! As I was drifting off to sleep last night, I was able to imagine the different notcher formations, door groups and so on and play through them mentally.

The funny thing is that now I look back on it, my progress slowed down at precisely the time I got it into my head that it would be a good idea to try to read the examples in my go books purely mentally. To some extent, perhaps that also had a positive effect: I don't find it difficult to read. But - and it's a big but - I would always be looking in my games for opportunities to read, and would get frustrated if I could not see some forcing sequence or other. I think too much mental practise has the strange drawback of making you unable to see the wood for the trees. You end up being able to see some fine plays, but not being able to engineer a situation in which to play them.

In contrast, I'm just beginning to find a subtler approach. In a recent game, I recognised the potential of an opposing group to become an unsettled notcher, and bullied the opponent mercilessly. I actually messed up quite badly in the finer details (it was not killable, but I let him live more generously than he deserved to), and STILL made a lot of profit despite my clumsiness! The game was a comfortable victory.

I have also been going over some of my defeats in light of John Fairbairn's rather amusing imagining of me on a jolly old partridge shoot. I found that it was kind of true! So, I have been attempting to play a lot less directly of late: making more probes, leaning plays, kikashi and more distant attacks designed not so much to kill outright as to restrict ("semaru", I think). I'm making good progress up through the 2k level now, so perhaps I can reach 1k (again) before too long. The more important thing is that I really do feel stronger, irrespective of what my KGS rank is.

I've worked my way through Davies's Life and Death and am most of the way through Attack and Defence. I have found both books revelatory. As I said above, the act of playing over the examples has impressed me much more deeply than merely reading them through off the page. And I find that mental reading has become easier, because I have the physical experience now to support me. It IS like playing a musical instrument! You could attempt purely mental practise of playing the guitar (or, for me these days, the organ), but it won't do you all that much good. However, if you learn the correct form on a real instrument, and THEN use mental practise, then one thing supports the other.

To give myself a structure, I've set myself a "reading list" based on the books I already have. I plan to work on two books at a time, with one chosen for its focus on details, and the other for more generalised applications. L&D is obviously a details book, but as already explain, I'm finding that those details crop up in as useful way in real games. A&D is more about general strategy, but it contains quite a few specific exchanges that are well worth knowing, and, naturally, principles are much easier to use if you have a mental library of real examples to back them up with.

On the general list, I plan to progress to Strategic Principles of Go (Nagahara), which is a book that I've read (but not played through) many times. I fully expect it to have a much deeper effect on me this time around. Then, I would like to go through Reducing Territorial Frameworks by Fujisawa Hideyuki. I've owned that for the last 17 years, and whenever I've read it it's just caused my mind to boggle. It won't this time around, however, because I shall be playing through the diagrams and not trying to follow the numbers mentally. (This is, I suppose, a much belated realisation that I'm not as clever as I would like to be, and so have to do things in a more humble fashion. Could that really be the breakthrough that I've been searching for for so long?)

On the specific list, I have the Nihon Kiin Tesuji dictionary, attributed to Yamashita Keigo. That should probably keep me going through the whole summer. After that, maybe I shall obtain Cho U's L&D dictionary.

A non-go book that I am currently reading, but which I have already found to have useful go applications among other things is Steve Peters's The Chimp Paradox. It has helped me to understand why you can't just play by instinct (which would be a mistake attempt to go to Daniel Kahneman's System I). This is because our minds are not JUST the rational, reasoning part and the automatic system, but ALSO a more primitive beast that is an atavistic survival of the simian brain: in other words, we have the human (logical, verbal, a bit slow, System II), the computer (automatic and lightning fast, System I) and Bonzo (somewhat faster than the human, highly emotional and aggressive, and definitely not very good at playing go, chess or whatever). The key is to learn to keep Bonzo under control, so that the human and the computer can work together.

I like to tell my "chimp" that it is allowed to watch while I play go - and cheer me on - but it is NOT allowed to play. Likewise, while I was singing a complex solo part yesterday morning, I told my nervous chimp that it was just going to be a spectator. It was unbelievably calming.

What happens when you go on tilt, is that you basically allow King Kong to take over. The chimp desperately wants to win, because winning confirms its status in the troop, while losing puts it lower down, with consequent loss of mating and feeding rights. For the chimp, it's a fight with severe consequences and not a game. That's why tilting is so miserable, and is often accompanied by rudeness and aggressive behaviour. I am coming to think that the appropriate corrective action is not just to walk away and take a break (the usual advice), but also to talk to King Kong and tell him that a) we're NOT in fact in a terrible fight for status in the troop and b) if he really, really wants to get better rights and status, he'd be much better off leaving it to the human and the computer to play. Good instinct is when the computer sees something it knows and lets us act on it automatically. Bad instinct is when the chimp runs amok choosing moves because they appear to lead directly to the desired goal (it's not very bright, you see).

That's the thing which relates to my previous post: the human within us likes to win, of course, but is much more interested in go as an endlessly fascinating game. It's the chimp who has the potential to spoil that enjoyment. That's perhaps why bad behaviour is more common on the Net than in life. Nobody wants to be seen acting like a chimp at a go event (and before you remind me, I have been there too :oops: ), but the possibility of letting your inner apebeast get loose while playing in the privacy of your home is a much more clear and present danger.
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by Tami »

I would be grateful if perhaps you would look at these games and please add to my comments:
Loss to rickf.sgf
(8.19 KiB) Downloaded 619 times
Win against Catsense.sgf
(9.62 KiB) Downloaded 621 times
I would like to know whether I exhibit any obvious weaknesses (or strengths for that matter!). Thank you :salute:
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Post by EdLee »

Hi Tami, only impressions; no deep reading at all:
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by Tryss »

Some LZ evaluations about the begining of the game :

After move 10, B winrate is 43%, down from 46% at the start, so it's absolutely playable for humans

LZ don't like the :b23: cap (-2.5%), she would prefer to play E9 instead

But the first huge mistake by black is :b25: : your winrate goes from 46% to 35% by playing the wedge. For LZ, D8 is the only move possible.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Variation 1 - Black winrate after 5 is 46.5%
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Variation 2 (worse for white) - Black winrate after 9 is 51%
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 3 5 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 7 X O 4 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Then white make several mistakes on the bottom side, and at move :w46:, the game is even.

At :b47: you should double hane (a -12.5% winrate loss, dropping from 50% to 37.5%)

:b53: is not the correct move locally, C8 is better :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X X . . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . O . . O . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
:b55: is not a good shape : white can play at F7 to capture your two cutting stones

Why play :b63: if you tenuki without playing F4 ? (LZ think F4 is really important and would play it nearly at every occasion until white kill the aji with move 130)
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by Tami »

Thank you to both Ed and Tryss for the game reviews.
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Re: Think and Grow Old

Post by Tami »

I was wondering about having a go (no pun intended) at doing a bit of streaming. Obviously not to attempt to teach people how to play go better, but just for fun and entertainment. I think that I'm quite good at articulating my thoughts, and I am told that my speaking voice is pleasant to hear. Does that sound like something you'd be interested in viewing?
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