BlindGroup Study Journal
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jeromie
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Re: BlindGroup Study Journal
By the way, on a similar note your 1 and 3 in the attempt to reduce white remove a weak point before the invasion. What was your reason for playing those moves first?
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BlindGroup
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Re: BlindGroup Study Journal
Honestly, I'm not at all sure what to do there. I have a sizable lead in secure territory. So, I did not want to play anything too risky, but I have the intuition that it should be possible to do more than just reduce white. Looking at my moves, I'm not sure they are necessarily great ideas.jeromie wrote:By the way, on a similar note your 1 and 3 in the attempt to reduce white remove a weak point before the invasion. What was your reason for playing those moves first?
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jeromie
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Re: BlindGroup Study Journal
My intuition would be to try something like J15 if you want to attack that area. I played around with it a little bit and think black will be able to escape either to the left or below. Whether that's worth trying when you've got a territorial lead would depend on a more exact count, which I'm too lazy to do right now. 
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EdLee
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Bill Spight
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Re: BlindGroup Study Journal
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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dfan
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Re: Re:
Not that this necessarily changes any conclusions, but if we're looking at efficiency in move-playing, you should really count this as 9 stones, since White "wasted" three moves giving you prisoners so you effectively got three of your moves for free.BlindGroup wrote:Now, as you say, I've got 12 stones generating 4 points of secure territory. That's a third of a point of secure territory per stone locally -- not good.
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Shaddy
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Re: BlindGroup Study Journal
You cannot let white take those 2 stones. The difference in center control is beyond counting, I value it at more than 30 points. If you don't see this intuitively then change your intuition until you do.
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BlindGroup
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Re: BlindGroup Study Journal
This is very helpful feed back. Thank you. I confess that I don't see it, but at least I know what to look for! I suspect that this is related to a more general issue of me not quite understanding how to use central influence optimally.Shaddy wrote:You cannot let white take those 2 stones. The difference in center control is beyond counting, I value it at more than 30 points. If you don't see this intuitively then change your intuition until you do.
Also, thank you to everyone else who has posted a response. This discussion has been very helpful!
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Uberdude
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Re: BlindGroup Study Journal
Like Shaddy said, you can't just give up those 2 stones. Beginners (and indeed non-beginners) can often make the mistake of saving unimportant stones, but it seems like BlindGroup went too far in the other direction and forgot that they are cutting stones. You don't need to think about influence, it's basic stuff of not letting your opponent capture your stones. So letting white capture those stone is a bad idea, but not so awful it makes me want to stab my eyes with a fork. That accolade however does belong to 
below. This is an awful move that helps white capture the 2 stones, but does very little for black, except make an empty triangle and likely cause shortage of liberty problems in the future around the cut at a.
If you are going to go crazy and let white capture the 2 stones, at least tenuki to whatever other big point you like rather than help him to do so. Seeing as you could then save the 2 stones, white may well extend at
anyway, it's a decent move. Now I pose a new problem, black to play. I don't think anyone, not even a 30 kyu, would suggest a now! But that's exactly what you did play, but in a different order. Hopefully b looks nicer from a shape perspective if you want to play a local move and stop white cutting off the 4 stones. However, now that they are not cutting stones they are small (unlike the 2 stones before!) so even better is to not worry about saving them until late endgame and play some big move somewhere else.
P.S. because of the squeeze if black answers cut with atari I would think about about jump or empty triangle.
below. This is an awful move that helps white capture the 2 stones, but does very little for black, except make an empty triangle and likely cause shortage of liberty problems in the future around the cut at a.If you are going to go crazy and let white capture the 2 stones, at least tenuki to whatever other big point you like rather than help him to do so. Seeing as you could then save the 2 stones, white may well extend at
anyway, it's a decent move. Now I pose a new problem, black to play. I don't think anyone, not even a 30 kyu, would suggest a now! But that's exactly what you did play, but in a different order. Hopefully b looks nicer from a shape perspective if you want to play a local move and stop white cutting off the 4 stones. However, now that they are not cutting stones they are small (unlike the 2 stones before!) so even better is to not worry about saving them until late endgame and play some big move somewhere else.P.S. because of the squeeze if black answers cut with atari I would think about about jump or empty triangle.
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BlindGroup
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Re: BlindGroup Study Journal
I concede (and thought I had) that my initial response to Ed's question was quite bad. Not self-mutilating bad, but perhaps deserving of self-flagellation? Anyway, sorry for any pain I may have caused!Uberdude wrote:Like Shaddy said, you can't just give up those 2 stones. Beginners (and indeed non-beginners) can often make the mistake of saving unimportant stones, but it seems like BlindGroup went too far in the other direction and forgot that they are cutting stones. You don't need to think about influence, it's basic stuff of not letting your opponent capture your stones. So letting white capture those stone is a bad idea, but not so awful it makes me want to stab my eyes with a fork. That accolade however does belong to
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BlindGroup
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Re: BlindGroup Study Journal
Persevering through the embarrassment of my eye-forking move above, I played a game today that surprised me. Something happened a week or so ago, and it feels like many of the pieces that I've been working on (using influence, shape, timing invasions, etc.) finally fell into place. At the time, I was just south of 5k on KGS, leveled-up, and now I'm even solidly beating many of my higher ranked opponents. Today, I beat a 3k without handicap stones! This is the strongest player I have ever beaten without handicap stones. We did play without komi, but the margin of victory was 31.5 points -- and nothing died!
Thoughts would be appreciated. I went back through the game and found a few mistakes, but on the whole, I was happy with my moves, especially move 101. I'm sure, however, there were a number of mistakes that I can't see right now.
Thoughts would be appreciated. I went back through the game and found a few mistakes, but on the whole, I was happy with my moves, especially move 101. I'm sure, however, there were a number of mistakes that I can't see right now.
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Bill Spight
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Re: BlindGroup Study Journal
Congratulations! 
A few top of the head comments.
The keima at P-07 enlarges the Black framework and reduces the White framework. It is also sente or close to it. Without this play, White Q-06 is big.
How about the solid hane, O-04? C gets into a pushing fight that favors White, I think, because White’s wall is not so close to his stones on the right side, while Black’s wall looks a bit over concentrated.
Now P-06 looks good, with the support of the O-05 stone.
F-16 looks pretty good.
D-07, to reduce the left side, looks good.
Good.
Main focus: The boundary of opposing frameworks is big.
A few top of the head comments.
The keima at P-07 enlarges the Black framework and reduces the White framework. It is also sente or close to it. Without this play, White Q-06 is big. How about the solid hane, O-04? C gets into a pushing fight that favors White, I think, because White’s wall is not so close to his stones on the right side, while Black’s wall looks a bit over concentrated. Now P-06 looks good, with the support of the O-05 stone. F-16 looks pretty good. D-07, to reduce the left side, looks good. Good.Main focus: The boundary of opposing frameworks is big.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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BlindGroup
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Re: BlindGroup Study Journal
Thanks, Bill! I see what you mean about playing at the intersection of two frameworks. I'll have to pay attention to that moving forward.Bill Spight wrote:Congratulations!
Main focus: The boundary of opposing frameworks is big.
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BlindGroup
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Re: BlindGroup Study Journal
I've decided to try to play just a handful of games each week and to review them carefully. Not sure it will last, but here is my effort from today. I thought the game went quite well, although it seemed a bit odd. My opponent seemed obsessed with taking territory on the side (quite a bit on the second line). I decided to let him and managed to convert the influence into a large moyo. My main focus in the middle game was to play thickly, and it seemed to work. My opponent, at least, failed to find any defects in my wall Although I did miss an important move at J13, and my opponent beat me to it...
Although I did miss an important move at J13, and my opponent beat me to it...- Attachments
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Knotwilg
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Re: BlindGroup Study Journal
Winning by 37,5 must have been a sign to you that you played more powerful go than your opponent. In particular the formation of a moyo in the upper right and turning it into territory was the key to an easy victory. As such we can probably make two recommendations for the players in this game: 1) if anyone needs to take handicap, it's your opponent 2) even so, the opponent should have tried harder to win. At no point I saw an attempt to make a comeback from the initial 2 stones, on the contrary the gap kept on widening.
That being said, there are moves worthy of comments for better or worse:
12 & 28: your influence is not worth his territory, locally. However, combining both with the 2 handicap stones, you develop a formidable sphere of influence
68: the double hane concludes an almost flawless game of attacking and moyo building
82: a beautiful move, completely in line with the game you have been playing; this and 68 make me cry with joy
88: it takes 44 moves before I see the first bad one
95; White spoils his chance to surround your weakest group and do something about the game
100: ugly, simply connecting out will do fine
116: if you read out the bottom connectivity, then that's impressive, but even so coming back to fix this weakness is probably the biggest move on the board.
122: the weakest group being alive, game is over
That being said, there are moves worthy of comments for better or worse:
12 & 28: your influence is not worth his territory, locally. However, combining both with the 2 handicap stones, you develop a formidable sphere of influence
68: the double hane concludes an almost flawless game of attacking and moyo building
82: a beautiful move, completely in line with the game you have been playing; this and 68 make me cry with joy
88: it takes 44 moves before I see the first bad one
95; White spoils his chance to surround your weakest group and do something about the game
100: ugly, simply connecting out will do fine
116: if you read out the bottom connectivity, then that's impressive, but even so coming back to fix this weakness is probably the biggest move on the board.
122: the weakest group being alive, game is over