This not Joseki! Even if they tell you :-)

Gomoto · Post by **Gomoto** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:32 pm

Lets have a look at this pseudo joseki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------+ $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . O X O . . . . | $$ . . . . O X O O . . | $$ , . . . Z X X X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Gomoto · Post by **Gomoto** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:38 pm

This is still a game:

: nojoseki2.jpg (173.2 KiB) Viewed 7455 times

Yamada Takuji 8p - Kobayashi Koichi 9p, W+0.5 (Komi 6.5)
71st Japanese Honinbo, preliminary, 2015-05-14

Gomoto · Post by **Gomoto** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:41 pm

But not anymore after this "Joseki" move:

: nojoseki2b.jpg (173.48 KiB) Viewed 7455 times

Although white continues to play and wins the game anyhow

(winrates ELF by the way)

Gomoto · Post by **Gomoto** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:49 pm

It is very important not to connect!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------+ $$ . . . . O . . . . . | $$ . . . O b O . . . . | $$ . . a X O X O O . . | $$ , . . . X X X X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

a is much better than b

(but even if you have to connect at b due to ko threats (Please show me a pro game example where b is the better move, thank you in advance) this is still better for white)

Gomoto · Post by **Gomoto** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:55 pm

But even with ko threats not in your favour, you can consider this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------+ $$ . . . . O . . . . . | $$ . O . O X O . . . . | $$ . . O X . X O O . . | $$ , . . . X X X X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Gomoto · Post by **Gomoto** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:57 pm

continuation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------+ $$ . . . . O . . . . . | $$ . O . O . O X . . . | $$ . . O X O X O O . . | $$ , . . . X X X X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------+ $$ . . . . O . . . . . | $$ . O . O . O X X . . | $$ . . O . O X O O . . | $$ , . . O X X X X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Gomoto · Post by **Gomoto** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:17 pm

One more pro game example:

: nojoseki2c.jpg (176.45 KiB) Viewed 7436 times

Yokota Shigeaki 9p - Morita Michihiro 9p, B+Resign (Komi 6.5)
18th Japanese Ryusei, group stage, 2008-11-17

Gomoto · Post by **Gomoto** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:19 pm

White connected (and looses the game):

: nojeski2d.jpg (177.84 KiB) Viewed 7435 times

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:12 am

Related shape from AlphaGo vs pro team, it's better to fight and lose ko (and get 4 moves elsewhere) than connect. http://www.alphago-games.com/view/event ... /3/move/88

Gomoto · Post by **Gomoto** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:30 am

Thanks for the link to the very interesting game and shape.

Life In 19x19

This not Joseki! Even if they tell you :-)

This not Joseki! Even if they tell you :-)

Re: This not Joseki! Even if they tell you :-)

Re: This not Joseki! Even if they tell you :-)

Re: This not Joseki! Even if they tell you :-)

Re: This not Joseki! Even if they tell you :-)

Re: This not Joseki! Even if they tell you :-)

Re: This not Joseki! Even if they tell you :-)

Re: This not Joseki! Even if they tell you :-)

Re: This not Joseki! Even if they tell you :-)

Re: This not Joseki! Even if they tell you :-)