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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1221 Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:30 am 
Gosei

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explo wrote:
What is KISS?

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1222 Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:38 am 
Dies with sente

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dfan wrote:
explo wrote:
What is KISS?

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Thank you. I looked on sensei's library to see if it was some sort of go evaluation I had never heard of :D .

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Post #1223 Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:50 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Here's what I'd play these days, having embraced the idea from bots/19th century that 3-4 approaches/shimaris are bigger than answering 4-4 approaches. I checked Elf and it likes it too (as well as 2-space high, but I'd rather be low). It could also be seen as psychologically successful in disrupting your opponent's presumed plans (which I can empathise with). That's something about strong players, they often are content to play simple good moves, take some territory, give the opponent something because they know such as with your "perfect" black side shape it still has holes to exploit in the future.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


P.S. when he had facing 3-4 points, didn't Go Seigen like to make the big shimari when one was approached? I don't know if he was unusual in this or plenty of other pros of his time did too, but that's another thing he did that AIs approve of.


This was my choice, as well. :) But then I checked with AlphaGo. Interesting that Elf liked it, as well. Of all the modern top bots, I find that Elf seems to be the one that my intuition is closest to. ;)

Quote:
That's something about strong players, they often are content to play simple good moves, take some territory, give the opponent something because they know such as with your "perfect" black side shape it still has holes to exploit in the future.


Along those lines, I was amazed at how often Dosaku, giving 3 or 4 stones, would start out building a moyo himself, before venturing into Black's spheres of influence. OC, his opponents never seemed to be able to make much of a dent in his moyos. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1224 Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:27 am 
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Quote:
Of all the modern top bots, I find that Elf seems to be the one that my intuition is closest to. ;)


Congratulations :-)

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Post #1225 Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:19 am 
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Kirby wrote:
Quote:
Of all the modern top bots, I find that Elf seems to be the one that my intuition is closest to. ;)


Congratulations :-)


It doesn't mean that I am any stronger, but I like Elf's style. :)

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Post #1226 Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:40 am 
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I decided to play against Leela Zero. I'm not to the level of LZ to play evenly and win yet, and I wanted a chance to win. So I played a handicap game with 6 stones. It was actually pretty easy to win. I'll reduce the handicap next time.

Here is the game:


There is nothing that complicated in this game. LZ invaded the 3-3; I took sente to defend another corner. LZ invaded another 3-3; I took sente to defend another corner. I had influence, and two corners - there wasn't much for LZ to do. I let LZ live where it wanted to live, and made influence.

It's a little uninteresting because of the high handicap, so next time, I'll play with lower handicap.

But for now, it's time to go to work.

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Post #1227 Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:48 am 
Gosei

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Leela Zero does not really know how to play handicap games (yet). For one thing, its neural network assumes komi is 7.5. Also, because it thinks in terms of winrate instead of points, it doesn't really know what to do when it thinks its chances of winning are very low (e.g., the beginning of a 6-stone handicap game) and is likely to make crazy moves rather than trying to chip away at the lead.

There has been some interesting work recently to try to deal with these issues, though it is kind of hacky and relies on some implicit properties of the networks. Here's a pointer to the current release; I don't know how easy it is to set up. One important thing is that only certain weight files work well with it.


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Post #1228 Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:32 am 
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Word (am I using that phrase correctly?).

I might give that release a shot, though, from the sound of it I might be better off playing humans for now until research into handicap games has been more fully developed.

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Post #1229 Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:07 am 
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dfan wrote:
Leela Zero does not really know how to play handicap games (yet). For one thing, its neural network assumes komi is 7.5. Also, because it thinks in terms of winrate instead of points, it doesn't really know what to do when it thinks its chances of winning are very low (e.g., the beginning of a 6-stone handicap game) and is likely to make crazy moves rather than trying to chip away at the lead.

There has been some interesting work recently to try to deal with these issues, though it is kind of hacky and relies on some implicit properties of the networks. Here's a pointer to the current release; I don't know how easy it is to set up. One important thing is that only certain weight files work well with it.


I would think that you would want to train the bot against sufficiently weak opponents. Certainly there are previous versions that are six stones weaker than the current best version. But you also have to have some way of letting it know that its opponent is appropriately weak. Winrates assume mistakes. You "have to" assume that Black will make more mistakes than White.

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Post #1230 Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:13 am 
Gosei

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Bill Spight wrote:
I would think that you would want to train the bot against sufficiently weak opponents. Certainly there are previous versions that are six stones weaker than the current best version. But you also have to have some way of letting it know that its opponent is appropriately weak. Winrates assume mistakes. You "have to" assume that Black will make more mistakes than White.

The way the current LZ experiments work is a two-step process. One is to try to hack in some vague concept of komi, or at least some sort of slider that controls compensation*. The other is to constantly adjust that slider so that the engine is fooled into thinking that it's not in a sure-win or sure-loss situation (so its winrate is between 20% and 80% or something like that). One can think of this slider as enforcing the assumption that Black will make more mistakes than White (putting the slider at "20 komi" kind of means "Black will probably make 20 further points of mistakes over the rest of the game"). When White thinks his chance of winning the game is reasonable, he plays much more reasonable moves.

I don't think there have been many successful experiments of intentionally training against weak opponents, though I don't really know how much it's been tried. My concerns would be that 1) you might learn to take advantage of very specific weaknesses of those particular opponents, 2) you'd have to do a lot of extra training that would take training time away from regular self-play, and 3) either you'd need a separate handicap-play network, or your extra training might interfere with the regular network. On the other hand, humans kind of have a separate handicap-game network (or at least take it into account).

Hopefully this is not too off topic in Kirby's journal!

* Gory but fun details: there's an input feature that says "It's White's turn so the current player gets a 7.5 point bonus", and an input feature that says "It's Black's turn so the current player gets a 7.5 point penalty" (they're separate to make things easier for the network). By interpolating between those values, you can kind of make the network interpolate komi. It doesn't work perfectly, and for some sets of weights it doesn't work at all, but it doesn't need to be that accurate to make the slider idea above work.


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Post #1231 Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:00 am 
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I decided to play LeelaZero today without handicap, since the handicap stuff doesn't seem to work well.

I've been trying to play more games, and I succeeded in waking up early enough today. I like playing humans more than computers, but I'm feeling a little depressed today, so I decided to just play LZ.

I feel somewhat selfish being depressed. We accepted an offer on our house yesterday, but it was for less money than we were expecting to get. I feel selfish, because we still made a profit, and we are doing OK financially. But simply because I had this expectation of $X and we got $Y with Y < X, I feel a bit down.

I'm not typically driven by money that much, so I feel like I'm acting pretty entitled. A lot of people can't afford to buy a house, so why does something like this get me down? Money doesn't even matter after a certain point.

Then why am I depressed? Maybe there's another reason, but I'm not sure what it is.

Maybe it's from the memories my family had in that house - it was our first home, so it's a bit sad to see it go.

Maybe lack of sleep from getting up early.

Nonetheless, I decided to play LZ instead of human today.


Here is the game:

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Post #1232 Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:03 am 
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Thinking about it more, maybe it's my personality. Typically, the worry that occupies my mind is the thing that seems the "least good", even if objectively, it's not that bad.

From that perspective, I guess things are good. My family is healthy for now, I'm having a good time at work, I'm enjoying go, thinking about getting back into studying Korean... So I guess the thing my mind can think to worry about comes to our house.

My mind seems to do this, picking the thing of most worry, even if objectively, nothing is that bad.

Goal: Aim to be more optimistic. There can be periods of *no* worry in my life.

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Post #1233 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:42 pm 
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So I didn't play much go this week. I had been doing the 5am thing for awhile, but this week, I did the 6am thing. Still exercised every day, but didn't do go.

But today was a go picnic held by Sasha, a guy in the Ann Arbor area. So I went there and played.

I didn't play that many games, because I brought my wife and kids - they were pretty bored, I think.

I did play a 1d player, though. I played against him as white, and won. Here's the first part of the game:



I might have a few moves mixed up.

Don also showed up. We played a few games. I'm up to beating him at 7 stones now. Well, we only played 1 game at 7 stones, but I won (after winning at 6 and 5 stones).

I'll see if I can have a better routine this week.

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Post #1234 Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:51 pm 
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I bit the bullet and installed windows. I had wanted to play on Tygem again for awhile, but I kept getting some dependency problem in installing wine32 on ubuntu. So I just installed Windows. I only use my web browser most of the time while I'm using my computer at home, so I guess it's no big deal.

Many players were online, as usual. And my request to play a longer game was rejected, as usual. So I played a game with 5 minutes of main time.

Here it is.



I got pretty lucky a couple of times.

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Post #1235 Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:57 pm 
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Pre-Elf review highlights (my thoughts)

Position 1
This is a no-no:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X B . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I felt it was wrong, but I should just play here I think:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Better shape.

Or here to take away liberties:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X B X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Position 2
This move is questionable:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . O . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X X . . . , B . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X O O . O . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . O X O X . . X . . O X X . X X X X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . X . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O X . X , . . . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O X X . O . O . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Because, as seen in the game, my follow up isn't that strong if he resist (as he did in the game).

I kind of like going for a big shape like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . O . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X X . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X O O . O . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . O X O X . . X . . O X X . X X X X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . X . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O X . X , . . . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O X X . O . O . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Position 3
Corner is pretty big, so I think I should answer this at the marked spot, instead of my tenuki:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O O . . . . . W C . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . O . X O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X X . . B , X O . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X O O . O . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . O X O X . . X . . O X X . X X X X . |
$$ | . O X O X X . X . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O X . X , . . . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O X X . O . O . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's a pretty big sacrifice to give up the corner like that.
---

I'll keep it at those points for now.

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Post #1236 Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:25 pm 
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According to Elf

One of the first moves that seems to clash pretty badly with Elf is this one:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . C . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . B . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The winning percentage for black drops by almost 10%. My basic understanding from looking at the variations is that it's pretty big to enclose or approach the top left around the marked areas. So that's what white is aiming to do next. But in this variation, white can keep black down low *and* get to approach up top. Then again, not all variations go that way.

Something like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . C . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O 2 O 0 . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 4 X 3 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 5 6 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black is pressed down low, so I guess white has a good result there, and gets to play on top.

In contrast, with Elf's suggestion:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O B . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White is inclined to block on the other side, so black gets good territory on the left:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . O X . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I like black getting territory on the left, so I can see this. But what if white blocks the same way as in the variation that was good for white, above?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . . O 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O B . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 2 X 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess with the marked black stone in place, black can push up to make a position on the bottom, which is useful for one. In this variation, incidentally, black also gets to enclose the top.

It's hard for me to definitively judge this. But it seems that there is some value in the hane that black can get locally, especially if white blocks this way. So if I know that white is going to block this way, the hane might be worth doing.

In this case, when white blocks on the right, I get good territory on the left, which is fine with me.

---

Funnily, Elf thinks that the move I played in the game, but felt was wrong, is actually a good move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X C X B . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . C . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Playing at one of the marked spots reduces my winning percentage (though, Elf already thinks white is winning). Elf seems to think that it's OK to be pressed down.

After white's response, Elf thinks I have a chance again. But recommends this move first:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . B X X . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It makes a lot of sense - if white blocks, then I can move out. Otherwise, I connect. Miai. Cool. I never thought of this possibility.

White my move here, Elf basically thinks I lost:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O X . X , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X C X X . O . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After white pushes through, I have almost no chance according to the win percentage.

I can see that, because it was quite painful to have those stones floating.

The recommended move was to defend:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O X . X , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . B X X C X X . O . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And Elf thinks I'm winning.

---

Evaluation after that was pretty meaningless until I captured the stones here:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . B . X O O . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . X . . O X X . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X X . X . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O X . X , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X X . O . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Suddenly, the game was turned around.

After that, the winning percentage never went down much for me, so I don't know how much I can ascertain.

---

Takeaway:
My favorite takeaway was this move here:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . B X X . X X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Kind of obvious, but it didn't occur to me during the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1237 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:59 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 8430
Liked others: 1461
Was liked: 1393
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Ug, so frustrated...

So awhile back, I was against having internet access at home - it was a waste of time, and took away from study time. But then we caved and bought internet access. A few years later, I was against smartphones - they were also a waste of time. But then we caved and bought smart phones.

Since moving back to Michigan, even though we have smartphones, we decided not to get internet access again, because we can just use the internet access from the phone - and it's all a waste of time, anyway :-p

Well, for today's game, I used my phone to get my computer connected to the internet, and then connected to Tygem. I began the game here:



But then my internet connection died. Oh well. I should have had better Internet connection. I felt good about the game up until then.

---

Part 2

Then, in search of Internet, I drive to the library - it's closing, but I should have time to reconnect. Well, library wifi isn't working. Get back in the car...

---

Part 3

Next stop - McDonald's. They have wifi, I think. Stop at McDonald's - buy something small, then get on laptop. Connect... Not connecting.

---

Part 4

Carry laptop around McDonald's, find customer area having optimal wifi connection (per my extremely sound, scientific approach of watching the wifi connection graph on my computer).

Find optimal area. Good. Connect to wifi. Takes some time. Looks like it's working.

---

Part 5

Not connecting. Phone seems to have better connection. Then phone connection is down. Back and forth a bit. Finally settle on McDonald's wifi.

---

Part 6

It's getting late, so simultaneously start up Tygem, KGS, and OGS, try to get a game on all. Setup KGS automatch to accept any opponent up until 9 stones, any time setting.

---

Part 7

We are good! Game is on.

Here it is:

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it's be happy, not achieve happiness

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1238 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:00 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 8430
Liked others: 1461
Was liked: 1393
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
It's getting late, so I won't review in detail. I'll just point out one detail:

Black could have killed me for awhile - I was too careless, and underestimated my opponent:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . X O X . . . . . O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O . X X X O . . O X O O X . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . O O O X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O O O X X X X O O X . . . |
$$ | . B . O O X X X X X . X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . X X . . X X . |
$$ | . O X O O X . . X O O . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O X . O O . . X X O . O . . X X O . |
$$ | . X X X . X X X X O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O . X O X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . . . X O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O . O O X X X X X X O O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X X . X O X O X O O , . O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X . X O X O O O . O O X . |
$$ | . O X X O . O X O O O X . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . O O X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He *didn't* kill me, but I shouldn't have left my stones like that. I forgot the shape was weak. At least by this point in the game, I should come up with a strategy so that my stones don't die:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . X O X . . . . . O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O . X X X O . . O X O O X . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . O O O X X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O O O O X X X X O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X X X X . X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X X . . X X . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O . O O X X . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X X . X O X . . O . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X . X O X O . O X . O . . |
$$ | . O X X O . O X O O O X . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . O O X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It is risky even here, but much less risky than I let the game get. I just let my stones be enclosed and had a bad shape.

Opponent didn't capitalize on my mistake, but it was a big opportunity for him, and a big miss for me.

---

Takeaway: Consider getting wifi for my house. It might be worth it. If I really think I'm wasting time, maybe we can ditch the smartphones. I can't be driving to McDonald's every day to steal their internet.

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Post #1239 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:20 pm 
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Possible to get wifi for home, and have phones with no data plan.
( so the phone behaves exactly like a non-smartphone, unless with wifi. )

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1240 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:11 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 8430
Liked others: 1461
Was liked: 1393
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
EdLee wrote:
Possible to get wifi for home, and have phones with no data plan.
( so the phone behaves exactly like a non-smartphone, unless with wifi. )


We might end up doing that. The only downside in terms of habits I have now might be that I probably won't listen to podcasts on the way to work.

But recently I started listening to audiobooks from the library, and that's worked just as well.

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