I was playing a 7 kyu on KGS (First of all I'm used to how people play in OGS and not at all used to handicap.)
Anyway long story short: There's way too many groups to pay attention to, way too little time, and weird looking moves that have me confused even when I try to review on my own. So any and all insight will be welcomed!
12kyu review request
-
jlt
- Gosei
- Posts: 1786
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:59 am
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 185 times
- Been thanked: 495 times
Re: 12kyu review request
A general idea when playing handicap games as Black: use your handicap stones to attack. By attacking, I mean
M16 is strange, why do you think connecting was useful?
F15 doesn't threaten anything, you could play a big point on the left side or defend the corner instead.
Note: take this with a grain of salt, I am not a strong player, but at least I found the advice to attack more and defend less quite useful when I was around your level.
- Split the opponent into several weak groups
- Try to seal your opponent's groups
- Make territory while attacking.
M16 is strange, why do you think connecting was useful?
F15 doesn't threaten anything, you could play a big point on the left side or defend the corner instead.
Note: take this with a grain of salt, I am not a strong player, but at least I found the advice to attack more and defend less quite useful when I was around your level.
-
Tryss
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 502
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 1:07 pm
- Rank: KGS 2k
- GD Posts: 100
- KGS: Tryss
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 153 times
Re: 12kyu review request
After looking at your game, I'd say : work on your yose/endgame, that's why you lost this game.
Exemple : move 186, can you find a better move locally? After that 188 is really bad. If you want to play locally, C16 is much better.
Exemple : move 186, can you find a better move locally? After that 188 is really bad. If you want to play locally, C16 is much better.
-
bernds
- Lives with ko
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:18 pm
- Rank: 2d
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 46 times
- Been thanked: 116 times
Re: 12kyu review request
One thing I noticed - I think to become stronger, you must want to hane more often. Examples:Stemu wrote:I was playing a 7 kyu on KGS (First of all I'm used to how people play in OGS and not at all used to handicap.)
Anyway long story short: There's way too many groups to pay attention to, way too little time, and weird looking moves that have me confused even when I try to review on my own. So any and all insight will be welcomed!
could be N5, 
could be N6, 
could be N7. I'm not saying they are necessarily the best moves; they might be, but the point here is that you should try to understand how a hane takes away the opponent's liberties in a fight, and how you can deal with the cuts. At 148 you have another opportunity to play a double hane. Maybe it's better, maybe not, but the point is: it must immediately come to mind.
would have more of an effect if it was at S8. 
is small and seems unnecessary. How about spoiling White's shape with a peep at P9?At
, don't push White out - attack from a distance. Knights moves like N12 are often good.At
you could attack at O13 rather than just answering. Your move seems to defend against no particularly serious threat. If White were to play Q14, you just extend to R15 and your corner suddenly becomes a lot safer.At
, look at the two right-side corner positions, and think about moves at the 2-1 points: T18 and S1. You need to be able to spot defective shapes and how to exploit them.
seems a little too direct, too close. I'm very tempted by the hane at K6, but M11 would make it hard for White to get very much out of his four stones above.-
Bill Spight
- Honinbo
- Posts: 10905
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
- Has thanked: 3651 times
- Been thanked: 3373 times
Re: 12kyu review request
Some comments. 
Main focus: Learn to kill.
Main focus: Learn to kill.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
-
Joaz Banbeck
- Judan
- Posts: 5546
- Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
- Rank: 1D AGA
- GD Posts: 1512
- Kaya handle: Test
- Location: Banbeck Vale
- Has thanked: 1080 times
- Been thanked: 1434 times
Re: 12kyu review request
The natural question then follows: how do I kill?Bill Spight wrote:...
Learn to kill....
For a start, remember the proverb: 'there is death in the hane'
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
-
Bill Spight
- Honinbo
- Posts: 10905
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
- Has thanked: 3651 times
- Been thanked: 3373 times
Re: 12kyu review request
That's good practical advice. But I think you have to learn vital points first. Even if they are not the first choice of plays, as a rule.Joaz Banbeck wrote:The natural question then follows: how do I kill?Bill Spight wrote:...
Learn to kill....
For a start, remember the proverb: 'there is death in the hane'
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
-
ez4u
- Oza
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm
- Rank: Jp 6 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: ez4u
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- Has thanked: 2351 times
- Been thanked: 1332 times
Re: 12kyu review request
There are a lot of points that Black could improve but let's concentrate on one. When White played 1 in the diagram below (83 in the game), Black should absolutely want to separate White into the two groups of marked stones shown below if at all possible. Of course if Black recognizes the threat of a Black play at P8 as shown by Bill above, it is much more powerful. But even without that, fundamentally we want to keep the upper White stones as targets for attacking. How does Black tell whether this is possible?
The most basic question is what happens if White cuts with 
below? Black can respond with 
and just keep on pushing if White tries to keep the Black stones separated in turn. Notice that when the ataris run out and Black connects at 
, the black stones have 6 liberties while the triangled white stones only have 3. That means that White has to go back and connect at 
or everything has been meaningless up to now. However, when Black simply jumps to 
White's stones are almost certainly captured.
So White cannot cut Black and plays below to force Black to connect. Black could just play P12 in gote but that lets White get the first move at the top (we will continue to assume that Black does not recognize the P8 threat here). Is there more that Black can do? Note that the three marked Black stones still have 3 liberties. Can we use this? First we can play the atari at , forcing White to connect. But then we can also play 
. The two marked white stones have only 2 liberties so this is a real threat that White needs to answer. White is better at reading than Black and answers at 
, saving the right-side stones. However, Black gets to atari with 
and again with . This move is key. Black threatens to cut at Q9 so White has to answer. However, now Black is already connected since he can play either R11 or P12. As a result, Black gets to play first on the outside with something like .
In a five-stone game White may be able to live here. Black should not mind as long as the White stones are contained and Black can build walls on the outside. Imagine that White makes two eye for the top group. That will be two points for White at the top, three points on the right, and three points in the top right corner (as Bill showed, Black can kill the bottom right corner). Black has more territory than that in the upper right and the right side group. So now can Black make more territory on the rest of the board than White can make on the bottom? It looks like a fun challenge for Black.
PS: In the last diagram above it is actually better for Black to play first without and . Can you see why? It has to do with Black's shortage of liberties.
below? Black can respond with and just keep on pushing if White tries to keep the Black stones separated in turn. Notice that when the ataris run out and Black connects at , the black stones have 6 liberties while the triangled white stones only have 3. That means that White has to go back and connect at or everything has been meaningless up to now. However, when Black simply jumps to White's stones are almost certainly captured.
So White cannot cut Black and plays below to force Black to connect. Black could just play P12 in gote but that lets White get the first move at the top (we will continue to assume that Black does not recognize the P8 threat here). Is there more that Black can do? Note that the three marked Black stones still have 3 liberties. Can we use this? First we can play the atari at , forcing White to connect. But then we can also play . The two marked white stones have only 2 liberties so this is a real threat that White needs to answer. White is better at reading than Black and answers at , saving the right-side stones. However, Black gets to atari with and again with . This move is key. Black threatens to cut at Q9 so White has to answer. However, now Black is already connected since he can play either R11 or P12. As a result, Black gets to play first on the outside with something like .
In a five-stone game White may be able to live here. Black should not mind as long as the White stones are contained and Black can build walls on the outside. Imagine that White makes two eye for the top group. That will be two points for White at the top, three points on the right, and three points in the top right corner (as Bill showed, Black can kill the bottom right corner). Black has more territory than that in the upper right and the right side group. So now can Black make more territory on the rest of the board than White can make on the bottom? It looks like a fun challenge for Black.PS: In the last diagram above it is actually better for Black to play
first without and . Can you see why? It has to do with Black's shortage of liberties.Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
-
explo
- Dies with sente
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:07 am
- Rank: FFG 1d
- GD Posts: 0
- Location: France
- Has thanked: 14 times
- Been thanked: 18 times
Re: 12kyu review request
Not a technical advice but I think slowing down would do a lot of good to your game (and I'm a fast player myself). You said it was hard to pay attention to all the groups and that some of the moves were confusing but you spent on average 4 seconds per move. It was even below 3.5 seconds per move until move 100! The 20 seconds per move byo yomi would have been comfortable at that pace. Your opponent played even faster so you didn't get much chance to think during his time either.
Re: 12kyu review request
Thank you so much for everybody! I only had time to go through your answers briefly just now (thank you school 
) and I only spent about half an hour. I'll definitely need more time since it's all so complicated !
I never knew getting a game analyzed would be this eye opening. Thank you all so much and I'll definitely be coming back here with more time whenever I get a proper break!
) and I only spent about half an hour. I'll definitely need more time since it's all so complicated !I never knew getting a game analyzed would be this eye opening. Thank you all so much and I'll definitely be coming back here with more time whenever I get a proper break!