This is not joseki (4-4 point, double low approach, attach)

Gomoto · Post by **Gomoto** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:38 am

: jos.jpg (161.67 KiB) Viewed 11059 times

(although white should not use the 3-3 variation in the first place, even in this position ELF prefers this hane)

Gomoto · Post by **Gomoto** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:43 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X X O O O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Choi Jaeyoung 4p - Na Hyun 9p, B+0.5 (Komi 6.5)
year 2018 Korean League, round 11, 2018-09-01

another game with the position mentioned by uberdude

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:38 am

Kirby wrote:I like white's result in that local variation, Uberdude.

FWIW Elf thinks it's essentially even (probably Kim studied it with AI, at BIBA I heard Shin Jinseo spent $10k on a gaming PC to run LeelaZero), but as white is keen to attach at L17 (move 19 or 21) to bully black into overconcentration (Elf thinks black should resist with hane once then tenuki to pincer right side and allow cut). Elf says Kim's thick turn at o13 was the first significant mistake (-10%) and wants to j17 instead (obviously this makes white's good move at L17 less effective).

I don't have strong feelings either way, though did play this variation as white in a pair go game at BIBA in which we got to hane at o14 which causes severe liberty problems for black but we messed up the move order later and the white group actually died (I had tenukid for grabbing cash based on the power of the hane getting us out of trouble).

Kirby wrote: I guess Kim Jiseok made things work, but how much of that is due to the joseki, and how much of that is due to being Kim Jiseok?

Kang Dongyun is no schmuck either! (interestingly black won all 3 games of this title match, despite Kim apparently preferring white). Kim's invasion of the right side was the highlight of the game for me. When reviewing I wondered why 98 wasn't connect above and Elf thinks that's a big 35% game switching blunder (but also (with few playouts) it wants to answer k16 because it can't see a ladder even I could find so how much to trust). If connecting above forces black to connect on the 1st line on right that seems preferable to the game because black 105 seems to work (I thought maybe black was going to die on the right but get so many forcing moves from centre to kill white l6 group, but it some variations we looked at black even won the semeai if white tries to cut 105).

P.S. Fun fact, Kim's [first I think] child was born on the same day he won this title.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:15 pm

Black just seems so over-concentrated to me. Also, I wasn't trying to imply Kang Dongyun was a "schmuck" - I just like Kim Jiseok.

Re: baby - I forgot that Kim Jiseok was so old. He still seems like a little kid to me.

Life In 19x19

This is not joseki (4-4 point, double low approach, attach)

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Re: This is not joseki (4-4 point, double low approach, atta

Re: This is not joseki (4-4 point, double low approach, atta