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 Post subject: Fox Go Server
Post #1 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Let us collect information about the Fox Go Server in this thread.

http://www.foxwq.com/
Site is chinese, the download button delivers the english client (overseas edition download). You can use google translate on the site if you are unsure.

(We do not have a own forum for Fox Go Server yet.)

Features:
fast matchmaking at every time of the day
saves sgf files
working score estimator (if this is your cup of tea)
betting for points (it is free, just for fun, only if you like to)
nice looking client
no bugs (like the new tygem client)

Minor Issue:
The sgf files are saved with komi 0, allthough the komi is counted correctly by the server

Nice to know:
It is a good idea to tick one of the proxy settings to prevent sporadic connection issues.


Last edited by Gomoto on Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #2 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:28 pm 
Honinbo
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Hi Gomoto, thanks. Do you know if they currently support only Windows ?
( No Mac OS, or iOS ? )

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #3 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:31 pm 
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I have no access to mac or ios, sorry, but perhaps somebody else can advice.

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #4 Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:52 am 
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I do not know how to deal with this situation on fox:

When I have a lead of 0.5 points at the end of the game my opponent passes more than 3 times. I cant pass any longer (Why is the game not just over?) and have to make a further move in my own territory . My opponent now does not make a further move (he cant pass also now) but requests now automatic counting.

For all practical purposes I should just resign the game and move on.

But is there a way to prevent this gaming of the system by my opponent?

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #5 Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:29 pm 
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Gomoto wrote:
I do not know how to deal with this situation on fox:

When I have a lead of 0.5 points at the end of the game my opponent passes more than 3 times. I cant pass any longer (Why is the game not just over?) and have to make a further move in my own territory . My opponent now does not make a further move (he cant pass also now) but requests now automatic counting.

For all practical purposes I should just resign the game and move on.

But is there a way to prevent this gaming of the system by my opponent?


I successfully notified an admin which closed the game in my favor, when I ran into such problem. There is a button for that somewhere in the UI.

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #6 Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:31 pm 
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Thanks sorin.

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #7 Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:55 pm 
Oza
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Every time I try to download the software, the download fails with a network error.

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #8 Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:08 pm 
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Gomoto wrote:
Let us collect information about the Fox Go Server in this thread.


Windows only. The promotion system is similar to Tygem's and like Tygem the ranks are softer. I like how pros have an easy to spot badge.

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #9 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:14 am 
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Today I had my second game against a griefer on Fox.

2/600 bad game rate = acceptable for me :lol:

But I also learned about my own mistake on fox. So in the future a few griefers will have a bad day:

Although japanese scoring is used it is very important not to pass before all dame are filled.

When you pass and your griefing opponent is filling the dame, after 3 passes you can not pass anymore and the opponent can just deny to count the game. The griefer is successfull

If you fill the dame first and only then start to pass turnwise while your griefing opponent also passes, both of you have to play in your own territory, if the griefer chooses to deny counting. No chance for the griefer.

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #10 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:11 am 
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I've played a couple of hundred games on Fox over the last 6 months, and only had a couple of people refuse to count.
No need to fill in dame etc., as mentioned earlier you can just notify an admin and in my experience, and from hearing others experience, it gets the problem sorted out quickly.
I give people two chances to count once the game is over- ask for counting/pass/ask for counting/pass, then I just call the admin.

The combination of admins that are quick to respond, simple rating system and escaper policy, and the huge number of players available at my rank at any time of the day or night makes it my favourite place to play. Although I still do spend some of my time on Tygem as well, because I always have exciting games there- more aggressive/overplays etc. although I think the level of play is overall very similar- I have the same rank on Tygem as on Fox.

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #11 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:13 am 
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Has anyone managed to run it on Linux with Wine, or some other method?

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #12 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:58 am 
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I've been playing a bit there (on Windows 10). I had an old account at 3d (is that the max you can register or was I just dumb to set it too low?) and it's pretty easy though I did lose a few games to brainfarts so didn't double promote to 5d. They seem more sensible than Tygem at that level where every other move is hard not to laugh at. One guy challenged me to a betting game "all in" with my fox coins and I creamed him :lol: . The pro broadcasts and AI games are nice and sgf save handy, though being unable to select text is annoying as then I can't copy-paste the Chinese into google translate to find pro/event names (or save the Chinese username of FineArtB in case I want to look up the user later and it isn't in the active game list -- I can't read/type Chinese).

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #13 Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:46 pm 
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There is a bug right now in the english fox client: When your opponent looses on time it shows the wrong color in the text (you lost ...)

But in the games list and for ranking purposes or if you load the sgf to an editor it shows the correct result.

Not that I bother ;-)



I just played a game on fox because the IGS Pandanet update was borked today (It is working again). I did not remember how fast these 30 seconds per move games are. I am glad that I switched to IGS. Totally ruinied my tournament performance with only playing these fast games on fox and tygem in the past. Long live IGS! ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #14 Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Uberdude wrote:
The pro broadcasts and AI games are nice and sgf save handy, though being unable to select text is annoying as then I can't copy-paste the Chinese into google translate to find pro/event names (or save the Chinese username of FineArtB in case I want to look up the user later and it isn't in the active game list -- I can't read/type Chinese).


I've been able to copy text. For stuff in chat, highlighting and right clicking brings up a copy option. Had a game yesterday where someone jumped into the room and started making comments in Chinese. When the game was done, I copied them into Google Translate to see what he was saying. Turns out he was abusing my opponent for poor play...

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #15 Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:44 am 
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zac wrote:
The combination of admins that are quick to respond, simple rating system and escaper policy, and the huge number of players available at my rank at any time of the day or night makes it my favourite place to play. Although I still do spend some of my time on Tygem as well, because I always have exciting games there- more aggressive/overplays etc. although I think the level of play is overall very similar- I have the same rank on Tygem as on Fox.


Although it depends on the time of day. If it's 3-4am in Beijing, I've found that there are no admins available. So, your only option is to wait until you get to 350 moves and can force counting. Given the number of games where my opponent refuses to count, that gets annoying at times!

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #16 Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:55 am 
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Does anyone know how to resolve this issue on Fox? I just played the game below that ended with the scoring algorithm judging the top group as alive. In this case, it didn't affect the outcome of the game, but how do you mark stones dead if the scoring estimator incorrectly judges them alive? The only option I seem to have after both players accept automatic scoring is to accept the result. There does not seem to be a way to alter the result. There is a button called "marked dead" at the bottom of the window, but that seems to be inoperable during automatic scoring.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X X X O O X O O . . |
$$ | O O . O O . . O O X X O O O X X O . . |
$$ | X X O . . O O O O X X X . . X X O . . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X X O O X X X X O O . . |
$$ | X . . X X O . . X O O O O X X X O . . |
$$ | O X X X X X X . . X O . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . X X O O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X X O O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X X O O X . O O O . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X O O O O X O O X X O O . O O |
$$ | X O O O X X O X X X O X . . X X O O X |
$$ | X X X X X O O X . X O X . X X . X O X |
$$ | . . . X O O . O X X X X . . . X X X X |
$$ | . X . X X O . O O X O . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O . X O . . O O X X X . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . O O O X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #17 Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:03 am 
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I see unresolved play, not dead stones ;-)

Aka dont botch it by playing on the wrong spot.


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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #18 Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:44 am 
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Gomoto wrote:
I see unresolved play, not dead stones ;-)

Aka dont botch it by playing on the wrong spot.


I feel like I may not understand when a group is declared dead by rule. I look at this, and I see the following:
1. Black can't play at either O17 or N17 without dying.
2. White can make a killing shape with N17.

Does white have to play N17 for the group to be ruled dead under the normal Japanese counting rules?


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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #19 Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:04 am 
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Japanese rules are never implemented correctly on go servers. Under japanese rules, if there is a disagreement, players should play the situation, then rewind before you played the situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Fox Go Server
Post #20 Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:20 am 
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Tryss wrote:
Japanese rules are never implemented correctly on go servers. Under japanese rules, if there is a disagreement, players should play the situation, then rewind before you played the situation.


Yes, ultimately, you are correct, and I think that is what happened in this game. I requested counting twice, the system scored the group dead and my opponent rejected the outcome. For some reason, after filling in a few dame, the system scored it alive, and my opponent was willing to accept that outcome.

The problem is that I have no idea how to resolve this on Fox. On IGS, for example, players can mark groups dead and reset changes to the scoring of the board after the system scores it.

But there is also this larger question of what the official rules say about this position. Does white have to waste a point? Or is the group officially dead under Japanese scoring?

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