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 Post subject: Where can I learn joseki with commentary?
Post #1 Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:18 pm 
Dies with sente

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Say if I wanted to learn every variation of a famous joseki (i.e. magic sword or taisha), is there a resource out there that could provide that information?

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Post #2 Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:36 pm 
Honinbo
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I wanted to learn every variation of a famous joseki
References: Takao and Ishida, various online schools have lessons on particular sequences, super-human engines, etc.

:study:

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 Post subject: Re: Where can I learn joseki with commentary?
Post #3 Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:09 pm 
Tengen

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Answer: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16135

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 Post subject: Re: Where can I learn joseki with commentary?
Post #4 Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:39 pm 
Honinbo

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negapesuo wrote:
Say if I wanted to learn every variation of a famous joseki (i.e. magic sword or taisha), is there a resource out there that could provide that information?


The most comprehensive resource, with professional commentary, that I know of is 最新囲碁大辞典, but it came out in 1977, so it is dated. And, OC, out of print. If you can do without the commentary, databases and AI are good.

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 Post subject: Re: Where can I learn joseki with commentary?
Post #5 Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:43 am 
Tengen

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Bill Spight wrote:
databases and AI are good.


Not all databases are good. Kogo's joseki database contains lots of mistakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Where can I learn joseki with commentary?
Post #6 Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:51 am 
Oza

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There were several Go Super Books that were full length books (well over 200 pages) devoted to just a single joseki. I can recall books on the Avalanche, Magic Sword, Taisha, Takamoku and San-san. The Avalanche (by Fujisawa Hideyuki) was especially outstanding and ranks as one of the best go books of all time. Not surprisingly it was the lead-off book in the series.

They appeared around 1970 and so are out of date now, but the penetrating insights into the ideas behind the joseki (often presented chronologically) and the ways of using the joseki in a game context do not really date, and are at a level way, way above joseki encyclopaedias. Generally they were aimed at strong kyu players (the shimari josekis book was an exception, aimed a bit lower) but the ideas were a revelation to dan players here - I translated the text only (not now available) for those who bought the original Avalanche book at the London Go Centre.

There was also an interesting book by Ishida covering a topic that's been ignored in English - "Before the Joseki," aimed at beginners

They can still be procured quite easily second-hand. They are in Japanese, of course, but amply diagrammed.


This post by John Fairbairn was liked by: Bill Spight
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 Post subject: Re: Where can I learn joseki with commentary?
Post #7 Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:58 am 
Honinbo

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RobertJasiek wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
databases and AI are good.


Not all databases are good. Kogo's joseki database contains lots of mistakes.


Sorry, I meant game databases.

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