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 Post subject: Best move for black?
Post #1 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:15 am 
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Following position is from a game that I am playing on DGS right now. After considering moves A B C and D as shown in fig. I preferred B. Is that a right choice? Are there any other moves apart from these four that are better in current position?

Attachment:
game-position.png
game-position.png [ 545.72 KiB | Viewed 807 times ]


I hope it is not inappropriate to ask since game is still running but I already have made my move at B, so this is not an advice for a particular move.

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Best move for black?
Post #2 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:19 am 
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I would have played D probably, but maybe B -- in either case, I wouldn't have kicked first. I know the point is to make White heavier, but he's still got the 3-3, the double approach, sliding under the stone to the left of D. I think he has more options with the extra stone, and more strength with which to exercise those options. O14 is an interesting point to play too, but feels like overplay without D on the board

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 Post subject: Re: Best move for black?
Post #3 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:37 am 
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Some thoughts. :)



Edit: Removed a Black stone which did not belong.

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Last edited by Bill Spight on Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Best move for black?
Post #4 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:44 am 
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Nice Bill, thanks for that, I did wonder about P14 when I started reading out ideas around O14 from the posted variation, but I wasn't sure if it was too "look at me pretending to be Takemiya Masaki" rather than actually good. O14 (followed by bP15 wO17) seemed to be a fight that Black would rather not have unless he was pretty sure of what it was going to achieve. I always feel a move like P14 is hard to "convert" somehow, but I'd love to have the confidence to play it in a game.

I'll also be honest, the thing that's bugging me most about the options is why P11 is where it is. I don't know what the board looked like when it was played, but the stone feels like it shouldn't be there. I suspect it might have been happier at R12

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 Post subject: Re: Best move for black?
Post #5 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Thanks for the replies.

P14 I don't like because it is contact play, right? I was studying few takemiya Masaki games and his large moyo ideas but this game started with avalanche joseki and since than I tried to keep my preference to territory rather unsuccessfully as you can see.

C I found too defensive and A little bit loose. P11 probably was bit early in the game, don't remember but may be noob's random move thinking it might give him some influence later during the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Best move for black?
Post #6 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:55 pm 
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Bill,

O16 and O15 are both targeted at influence while I don't have any territory at all. Isn't that too risky? There is not much territory in the center, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Best move for black?
Post #7 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:32 pm 
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xoxox wrote:
...P14 I don't like because it is contact play, right?...


P14 was the suggestion without the kick first :)

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 Post subject: Re: Best move for black?
Post #8 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:20 pm 
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xoxox wrote:
Bill,

O16 and O15 are both targeted at influence while I don't have any territory at all. Isn't that too risky? There is not much territory in the center, right?


They are not particularly targeted at influence. True, they are more central oriented than O-17, but that is appropriate at this point in the game. O-16 was usual 50 years ago, even earlier in the game, and O-15 is a play that might have been chosen 300 years ago, when players were more territorial than they are today.

As for my suggestion, P-14, it is center oriented, but it works with Q-16, P-11, and K-16. Yes, everybody has a style, but it does not pay to be doctrinaire. Black has already played in the corners and on the sides; a center oriented play is natural.

BTW, your comment made me wonder how P-11 got there. It looks like there are too many Black stones or not enough White stones on the board, for an even game. What was the actual position? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Best move for black?
Post #9 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
BTW, your comment made me wonder how P-11 got there. It looks like there are too many Black stones or not enough White stones on the board, for an even game. What was the actual position? :)


It is an even game still running. No handicap stones, 6.5 Komi. In fact there are more white stones on board than black. White captured once at P2.

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 Post subject: Re: Best move for black?
Post #10 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:10 pm 
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In following position on move 25 I played P11 as marked.

Attachment:
p11.png
p11.png [ 439.05 KiB | Viewed 767 times ]


This post by xoxox was liked by: Bill Spight
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 Post subject: Re: Best move for black?
Post #11 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:23 pm 
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xoxox wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
BTW, your comment made me wonder how P-11 got there. It looks like there are too many Black stones or not enough White stones on the board, for an even game. What was the actual position? :)


It is an even game still running. No handicap stones, 6.5 Komi. In fact there are more white stones on board than black. White captured once at P2.


Sorry. I hallucinated a Black stone on E-09. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Best move for black?
Post #12 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:58 am 
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xoxox wrote:
In following position on move 25 I played P11 as marked.

Attachment:
p11.png

Thats a very ambitious move if one is interested in territory on the right side.
I like it however, because its reminds me that the board is wide and that I dont have to play the same old approaches and enclosures every time

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 Post subject: Re: Best move for black?
Post #13 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:57 am 
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Hi everyone,

I finally got O14 working because my opponent played at R11. Because I didn't play at R12 my opponent may live on the right but I have a strong chance of building moyo in center.

I am still bit behind in the territory but I like my position now. If I can secure couple of more stones in the center in the following position I would be very happy to play slightly difficult endgame.

Attachment:
O14.png
O14.png [ 538.01 KiB | Viewed 714 times ]

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