Please review this tsumego problem that came up- 2k Fox

[negapesuo]

Towards the end, the white group on the right side died because he misplayed the tsumego. I believe it was alive unconditionally, but can anyone see if they are able to kill it?

If anyone is willing to provide an overall review for black, that'd be great. Thank you for the review.

[Joaz Banbeck]

As requested, a review for black. Comments extend all the way to move 133.

[Tryss]

@Joaz : in your variation for , what if is at Q18 ?

[jlt]

Wrong, ignore.

Could White live like this?

$$W
$$ X . O X . . . |
$$ O O . O X . . |
$$ X O O . X X . |
$$ X X X X . O 2 |
$$ O O O X O 4 3 |
$$ X X X O O 1 X |
$$ X . X X O O 5 |
$$ . X O X O . O |
$$ . . . O X O . |
$$ O . X . X X . |
$$ O X . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ X . O X . . . |
$$ O O . O X . . |
$$ X O O . X X . |
$$ X X X X . O 2 |
$$ O O O X O 4 3 |
$$ X X X O O 1 X |
$$ X . X X O O 5 |
$$ . X O X O . O |
$$ . . . O X O . |
$$ O . X . X X . |
$$ O X . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |[/go]

[Tryss]

@jtl : No, because then

$$B
$$ X . O X . . . |
$$ O O . O X . . |
$$ X O O . X X . |
$$ X X X X 1 O X |
$$ O O O X O X . |
$$ X X X O O O X |
$$ X . X X O O O |
$$ . X O X O . O |
$$ . . . O X O . |
$$ O . X . X X . |
$$ O X . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ X . O X . . . |
$$ O O . O X . . |
$$ X O O . X X . |
$$ X X X X 1 O X |
$$ O O O X O X . |
$$ X X X O O O X |
$$ X . X X O O O |
$$ . X O X O . O |
$$ . . . O X O . |
$$ O . X . X X . |
$$ O X . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |[/go]

But white can live :

$$W
$$ X . O X . . . |
$$ O O . O X . . |
$$ X O O . X X . |
$$ X X X X . O . |
$$ O O O X O . 1 |
$$ X X X O O . X |
$$ X . X X O O . |
$$ . X O X O . O |
$$ . . . O X O . |
$$ O . X . X X . |
$$ O X . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ X . O X . . . |
$$ O O . O X . . |
$$ X O O . X X . |
$$ X X X X . O . |
$$ O O O X O . 1 |
$$ X X X O O . X |
$$ X . X X O O . |
$$ . X O X O . O |
$$ . . . O X O . |
$$ O . X . X X . |
$$ O X . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |[/go]

[jlt]

Yes of course, I just realized this after posting...

[Shaddy]

127 at S12 should kill unconditionally. 131 should hane on the other side instead of blocking.

[negapesuo]

@Joaz : in your variation for , what if is at Q18 ?

Yes, also confused by this.

[negapesuo]

127 at S12 should kill unconditionally. 131 should hane on the other side instead of blocking.

I see... There was no reason for me to cut since the group is already cut off in miai.

[Joaz Banbeck]

@Joaz : in your variation for , what if is at Q18 ?

Then black dies. Sorry about that. I was reading too fast.

[ez4u]

White should play 114 at P12. So can Black play 113 at Q12?

[Joaz Banbeck]

White should play 114 at P12. So can Black play 113 at Q12?

I was thinking much the same, since P9 and R9 are miai. But 113 at P12 works also, and guarantees a connection to the upper right stones.

Nice sig, BTW. I had read it before, but I couldn't remember where.

[kyulearner]

Regarding 3rd line stones, there is saying in Japan that 4 dies and 6 lives (5 depends on who has sente). So you should strive to make a 3rd line of 6 stones or make a line of 5 stones+sente, if you want to live within an opponent framework.