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 Post subject: suggestion please - whole board yose from pro game for DDK
Post #1 Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 1:09 am 
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I organise a Go activity at work at lunchtimes, and one of the attendees, who is around 14 kyu, would like to practise the endgame.

I would like to give him and another attendee a position from a pro game which is around 60 moves from the end.

Ideally the position would be close - no clear advantage for either side - and there would be elements of large yose in it. Any suggestions?

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: suggestion please - whole board yose from pro game for D
Post #2 Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 1:43 am 
Gosei
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pick any pro game from a db that ended in a small difference

however, pro games hide subtle life & death issues which can explode quickly when picked up (messed up) by amateurs

Here's a game of mine that ended in W+2,5

Go to move 202 - one could say endgame starts there


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 Post subject: Re: suggestion please - whole board yose from pro game for D
Post #3 Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 2:10 am 
Honinbo

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goPlayerJuggler wrote:
I organise a Go activity at work at lunchtimes, and one of the attendees, who is around 14 kyu, would like to practise the endgame.

I would like to give him and another attendee a position from a pro game which is around 60 moves from the end.

Ideally the position would be close - no clear advantage for either side - and there would be elements of large yose in it. Any suggestions?

Thanks


Yes. Start at the dame filling stage. 14 kyus can make large mistakes filling dame. Research has shown that even 5 kyus fill dame incorrectly in around 2% of their games.

You are a French 1 kyu. If I played out a pro game 60 moves from the end against an AGA shodan, I would expect to easily pick up more than 10 pts. Professor Berlekamp and I held an endgame tournament for pros, using positions from Go Seigen games. At one point all the pros started laughing. Rui Naiwei had killed one of her opponent's groups. ;) Even pros make significant endgame errors 60 moves from the end.

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 Post subject: Re: suggestion please - whole board yose from pro game for D
Post #4 Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 2:30 am 
Honinbo

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Here is a backed up pro game that I have analyzed. You might find it useful. :)

viewtopic.php?p=195617#p195617

viewtopic.php?p=195722#p195722

Same game, after no one suggested how to finish it.

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The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: suggestion please - whole board yose from pro game for D
Post #5 Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 2:40 am 
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Bill Spight wrote:
Here is a backed up pro game that I have analyzed. You might find it useful. :)

viewtopic.php?p=195617#p195617

viewtopic.php?p=195722#p195722

Same game, after no one suggested how to finish it.


It's just the small yose, but even so, I could use that I guess... Thanks. Could you tell me a bit more about the game please (players, event, result, ...)?

I appreciate your point about getting DDK to play just the dame, but I'm not going to go with that idea. The aim is to approach things via the "playing" aspect of things,

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 Post subject: Re: suggestion please - whole board yose from pro game for D
Post #6 Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:05 am 
Honinbo

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goPlayerJuggler wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
Here is a backed up pro game that I have analyzed. You might find it useful. :)

viewtopic.php?p=195617#p195617

viewtopic.php?p=195722#p195722

Same game, after no one suggested how to finish it.


It's just the small yose, but even so, I could use that I guess... Thanks. Could you tell me a bit more about the game please (players, event, result, ...)?


If you follow the whole analysis, over a number of posts, that information will be revealed. :) And you may revise your views about "just" small yose.

Quote:
I appreciate your point about getting DDK to play just the dame, but I'm not going to go with that idea. The aim is to approach things via the "playing" aspect of things,


Do you think that filling the dame is not about playing go? Yes, at your level, you see nearly all of the dangers and avoid them routinely. But when you fill the dame damezumari situations arise that DDKs are oblivious to. Huge swings can occur. If DDKs avoid filling the dame because they think there is nothing to that, they do themselves a disservice. Take a look at DDK online game records. At the very end of the game they make horrendous blunders because they do not understand the close fighting that can occur. For a DDK dame filling can be an eye-opener. :)

See viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9103
and viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11260 . :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet. ;)


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: goPlayerJuggler
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