Mixed News, Part 2

Fedya · Post by **Fedya** » Sat May 25, 2019 5:50 pm

So I've continued trying to play more aggressively, albeit it the slight worry in my mind of what I'll do when I get to the level of opponents who know how to handle such aggression. Recently I came up against such an opponent, as it seemed that nothing I tried worked, although I didn't realize it until several moves after the fact. Part of the problem is that while I played what I think are more daring moves, they also had the effect of leaving a possible weakness and having to figure out what to do if my opponent tries to exploit it:

The tenuki on :b7:

. I've always been uncomfortable about playing tenuki in response to an approach, as there's always the question of what to do when your opponent plays the double approach. I don't think I got that bad a result, although my reading couldn't figure out how much pressure I could have put on White to keep his two groups separate.

The pincer attack on :b13:

. I know the sequence, and I know the result is that Black gets a wall while there's aji from the R14 stone I'm pincering. During the game, I couldn't figure out at all how to deal with that aji, and the result is spectualarly bad. :oops:

Leela particularly hated when I played P15.

Leela also hated my play at K17, which surprised me since I thought it was a good, aggressive reducing move.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sat May 25, 2019 9:37 pm

Move 7: Q5 is probably best, but if you can keep sente and come back to it, a tenuki may be fine.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Points around 'a' and 'b' are miai. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 2 4 . b b . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 1 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sun May 26, 2019 12:29 am

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sun May 26, 2019 4:15 am

A few comments.

:w10:

Looks thin.

:b11:

The attachment at E-17 looks good. Push White around a bit and then come back to enclose the bottom right corner. The three space extension is now passé. (Until maybe later in the game.)

:b13:

Ed’s suggestion is good, but we can’t really say that your play is bad.

:b21:

The solid connection is no longer played. S-14, connecting underneath, is better.

:b23:

Worried about the five Black stones in the corner being attacked? If you connect underneath you only have to worry about three stones, and White needs to cut to capture them. Still, this move is slow. Better the E-17 attachment. With this play and the three space extension, Black is falling behind.

:w24:

Heavy. That helps.

Strengthens White. Since White already has the N-04 stone, maybe better just to jump to O-03 right away, threatening P-05.

:w28:

With Black strong on the right side, not a good plan.

:w32:

Overplay.

Black is already strong here. Much better to use that strength to push up with O-04 and cut off the three White stones to the right. They will end up fighting in Black’s sphere of influence.

O-04 is better.

:b35:

Compounds the felony. Push and cut.

:w36:

A clever play.

:b37:

Not a bad idea.

But first, inject some help with the peep at L-03, then after White M-03, play this approach.

:b39:

There is nothing to fear. The stand is good. Then after White C-06 or D-06, come back to peep at L-03.

:w40:

The hane on top at F-04 is good.

:b43:

Defensive. Better to build up some strength here with sente, starting with the attachment at F-17. Push White around a bit. Then, having already built up some strength on the bottom side, attack the White stones in the bottom right, starting with the jump to O-05, as Ed suggests.

Fedya · Post by **Fedya** » Sun May 26, 2019 4:47 am

Joaz Banbeck wrote:Move 7: Q5 is probably best, but if you can keep sente and come back to it, a tenuki may be fine.

$$Wc Points around 'a' and 'b' are miai.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 4 . b b . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 1 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Points around 'a' and 'b' are miai. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 2 4 . b b . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 1 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black can get away with jumping to b after White plays a? This is the same reason why I extended on :b39:

instead of F4.

Edit: I mean, I know that if :w5:

is at one of the a points, you can play something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 1 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But every time I play like that I feel like I get an unsatisfactory result.

With 5 as in Joaz's diagram and the pincer, I don't see where Black is supposed to get eyes.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sun May 26, 2019 5:52 am

Fedya wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:Move 7: Q5 is probably best, but if you can keep sente and come back to it, a tenuki may be fine.

$$Wc Points around 'a' and 'b' are miai.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 4 . b b . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 1 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Points around 'a' and 'b' are miai. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 2 4 . b b . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 1 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black can get away with jumping to b after White plays a? This is the same reason why I extended on instead of F4.

{snip}
With 5 as in Joaz's diagram and the pincer, I don't see where Black is supposed to get eyes.

Let's peer into the future.

The play might go this way.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm8 White attacks $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O 5 O . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , 4 . 8 7 . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . B B . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

pincers the :bc:

stones.

plays the two space jump. Then :w10:

threatens to cut Black in two. Then Black protects against that with sente and then plays the kosumi of :b13:

, which threatens to play at 16. Suppose that :w14:

prevents that. After strengthening himself with sente, Black jumps into the center with :b17:

. This move threatens :w8:

and

and gives Black plenty of room to make life.

Edit: It has always been common to leave a single stone unprotected, and in the past good players often played the stand in reply to the kick, and left those stones unprotected, as well. Also, they did not simply make a three space extension from those stones, but often made more distant extensions. The bots have brought that style back into vogue. Mid-Twentieth century textbooks taught us to extend from those stones, but you don't need to, really.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sun May 26, 2019 6:47 am

Some more comments:

:b73:

Block at Q-14 and let White connect his two stones. You would not have had this problem if you had played S-14 earlier.

Black 141: Don't connect the ataried stone. Sacrifice it to save your group and make some points.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Save, oh, save! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O O X X . . X X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X O X X X O O . O . O O O . | $$ | . O O , X . O O O O O . . O X X X O . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . X . X X X . X X X | $$ | . X . . . . O . X . X . . . O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . O . O X X X O | $$ | . . . . . . O O X . O . . . X O X 3 X | $$ | . . X . X O . O X . . . O X . O X 4 1 | $$ | . X . , . O . O X O O . . O O O X . 2 | $$ | . X O O . . O X X . . . . . . X X 6 . | $$ | . X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . X . | $$ | . . X O . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . O O . . X . . . . . . . . . O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . O . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . X . O . O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . X X O X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

connects

Life In 19x19

Mixed News, Part 2

Mixed News, Part 2

Re: Mixed News, Part 2

Re: Mixed News, Part 2

Re: Mixed News, Part 2

Re: Mixed News, Part 2

Re: Mixed News, Part 2