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 Post subject: Breadcrumbs on the board
Post #1 Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 3:10 am 
Beginner

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Rank: KGS 1d
Hello everyone. I finally decided to have a small journal for my notes.
I'm about 3d in strength on Fox and 2k on OGS. My main server is Fox.

I intend to share some interesting positions here or some snippets of shapes that I've learned.
All commentaries and questions are welcome.

お願いします


This post by jouseki was liked by: Bill Spight
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 Post subject: Damezumari
Post #2 Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:57 am 
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In the recent game I've had a very interesting position, on which both me and my opponent spent 30 minutes total time reading things out.
I was black.

It started this way:



I've made a huge mistake of not pushing through white's stones in order to create the cutting points. I knew of this tesuji, but I blundered.



At this point, I was looking at playing either A or B. We can examine A first:



I have read about this far (it's one way street, so it's not that difficult) and figured out that I probably will not be able to win the semeai against neither A nor B nor C. So I quickly discarded this option.
As for B:



I couldn't find neither A or B working for me, so the atari variation is no longer possible in this branch.

After I discarded both of these atari variations, I've started reading out some better tactical moves. The first instinct was to play the bamboo joint. This way I don't get 1 move behind by playing atari and connecting up.



There was an obvious shape problem for white's corner, so after this cut I thought I had the best chances to figure something out.
The game went this way:



At this point, my opponent has 3 candidate moves.
I figured, that if they choose A or B, I can extend at C and I will definitely be able to capture the cutting stones.
Let's look at this variation.



If white A, then black B and atari.
If white C, then black D and atari.
If white D, then black C, white can try getting out with two atari, but black eventually wins, because the liberty B will be empty.

However, my opponent has found the solution to that which I have completely missed in my reading. They have spent about 8 minutes reading this out.
The game went this way:



Now, my move at A wouldn't work, because my cutting stones are short on liberties. White can attach at B as a response and then get out with the bamboo joint regardless of what black does.

At this point, I thought that I have collapsed. I've spend 10 minutes reading out all of the possible variations, and there's a lot to consider.

First, there's this semeai. It's almost 1 way street until it comes to ko. In the game, I've read to move 14 and figured that I will probably not be able to win it. But in the post analysis I found out that black can indeed with in this position.



Next, there's this small semeai, but black doesn't have a good response to the cut. However, I still had to keep in mind that any defense I play to this cut will affect this semeai. Although I would probably need a bit more than just a defense to the cut.



And finally, there's these cutting stones. My first instinct was to play the jump, but following this sequence I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to prevent white from connecting. I've read about this far and discarded this variation, but after the game I realized, that it would be the same if not better than what happened in the game.



Eventually, I have settled for this position. At first, I couldn't find the refutation to this hane, but I was mainly reading out the cross cut at B. However, shortly after playing the move, I discovered the counter hane from white, that is A.
At this point I was convinced that I completely screwed it up.



As for the cross cut, my reading was as follows.
I've tried to make the following move work, but I couldn't find a way to defend both A and B here, so I quickly discarded this move.



Next, I found this ko. But for some reason, I decided that it would be too risky to play it. At the time I was convinced that I could settle the position without a ko.



And finally, I found this move. From here I was convinced that the crosscut wouldn't work for white.



In the game, white have found this counter hane move, which I have not read out at all.
My first instinct was to play the following variation. But at the end, it was clear that it would be impossible to contain white's stones for me.
In the post analysis I found out that Leela is ok with this variation, she just begins the corner semeai shortly as she's convinced that black can win it (and I have discarded this possibility earlier).



After about 5 minutes of reading, I was approaching byo-yomi. The following diagram is the farthest I could read, so it was my only hope.
At the very end, before deciding to play it out, I've tried to imagine how the semeai would go.
I noticed, that I have 2 inside liberties that white can't fill because they need to connect at A and B. However, I was pretty short on time, so I couldn't count the liberties properly.

This is also how the game went (accordingly to my reading):



White started the semeai and the game went as follows.



My opponent missed the fact that I have 2 extra liberties due to his weakness in shape, so white resigned here.
Had I not have those extra liberties, white would've won the semeai by 1 liberty exactly. I commend white for being able to read it out as well.

I had a lot of fun reading it. It was a roller coaster for me, but at the end I was about 70% sure that I would win the semeai, even with the extra liberties. Maybe I just got tired from reading everything out.


This post by jouseki was liked by 2 people: apetresc, Bill Spight
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 Post subject: Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
Post #3 Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:04 am 
Judan

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Gosh, what a lot of reading! I rarely read that much, and I eat Fox 3ds for breakfast. So I think if you put even a fraction of that effort into all your moves, you'd easily win without getting into such dicey positions. In AI terms, maybe you need to improve your policy network more than your playouts depth. You already mentioned the not pushing through at h17 mistake, but also just before that if you played f18 at g18 then your 2 groups would be trivially connected so no scope for troubles like the game (f18 does hurt the top left corner more though so greed is nice if you can get away with it). Also in one variation at the end you said B doesn't work here.

jouseki wrote:

I couldn't find neither A or B working for me, so the atari variation is no longer possible in this branch.

It does, squeeze for ladder :)

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 Post subject: Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
Post #4 Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:53 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Gosh, what a lot of reading! I rarely read that much, and I eat Fox 3ds for breakfast. So I think if you put even a fraction of that effort into all your moves, you'd easily win without getting into such dicey positions. In AI terms, maybe you need to improve your policy network more than your playouts depth.


That's true. Reading is what I enjoy the most about the game, but sometimes I miss very obvious moves that should require 0 reading from me, and it leads to an eventual collapse.
At Fox 3d my regular game is where I lead by over 20 points, this is the buffer I need to make up for the blunder that I will eventually make. In my estimations, 20-25 points lead will become a -2.5 to +2.5 point game, something in that range.
But it is what it is. The only downside to it for me personally is that I never get to play "an even opponent" so to speak, but since my win/lose record keeps me at 3d, it probably means that I am 3d, so I don't really have an argument here.

Uberdude wrote:
You already mentioned the not pushing through at h17 mistake, but also just before that if you played f18 at g18 then your 2 groups would be trivially connected so no scope for troubles like the game (f18 does hurt the top left corner more though so greed is nice if you can get away with it).


I don't remember exactly why I decided not to play the clamp. I also know of that tesuji, but I think I imagined that white would push up and connect somehow. Unfortunately I didn't give it a second thought and just played the sagari.

Uberdude wrote:
Also in one variation at the end you said B doesn't work here.
jouseki wrote:
I couldn't find neither A or B working for me, so the atari variation is no longer possible in this branch.

It does, squeeze for ladder :)


Totally missed that one, thanks for the hint.

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 Post subject: Pricking stones
Post #5 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 am 
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Just finished the game that I think could be the most indicative of how my games usually go. An iconic game you could say.
I'm very embarrassed for playing this way, but no matter what I try to do, I can't ever fix it.
Using age or external factors as an excuse I don't consider pleasant. Those are mistakes and they're all my mistakes, regardless of the exterior (level of concentration, mood, number of distractions, etc).

This was a game against a very iconic "asian" 7 kyu player. You can find them everywhere - tygem, fox, oro. The game itself was played on OGS.
Many people describe this style as aggressive, but in reality it's just the mindset that is aggressive - the moves themselves are usually daring, but also cherishing. If you play correctly against this style, you'll find the opponent helping you most of the time, rather than actually posing a threat.

The game started in a regular way with these opponents. Here was the first decision, between A (or keima) and B. Due to the existence of C I chose the former, but I'm not sure if the position would be good for me had white defended against C and I'd be forced to play B or maybe cap that stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O c . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Here another decision. I prefer picking B in positions like this just because I like territory. But on this board I also chose B because if anything I have stones at C to run forward, if it will be necessary.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . a . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Here yet another decision in which I chose the territorial one. The shape move is B and leela prefers B as well, but I like moves like A. With B I know that I reduce the liberties and ruin the shape, but I can't see where my profit will be from this situation.
I thought that if black pushes at B as a response, I'll extend and ruin his shape anyway, so if he defends elsewhere I should be up on territory after enclosing at C a bit later.
Leela disagrees with my decision, but unfortunately she can't speak, so I couldn't ask her why so.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . c . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This was my first major directional mistake I think. I chose to connect up the 2 stones with A, but the obviously right move was B. Regardless of whether or not I would be able to save B, just at least extending the cutting stones once would already be extremely good for black.
Leela agrees with that, she says that B is the only move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O O . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . b X O . . X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O O W O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . a . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


At this point of the game, I'm extremely ahead, which is expected against a weaker opponent. However, this is where the pricking starts.
There goes the first move.
In this position I usually consider A or B. I thought that after playing A I should be able to hane at C if white pushes. After that, the shape is well known - white can't get anything better than the "straight J group" in the corner, which is ko.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . c X X . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a . X . . O O . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O X O . . X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . O O O X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X X O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O . O . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X . . O . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X X . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


The game went this way.
The opponent chose the J shape, which is unconditionally dead. I proceeded in "killing" it, but this is where the fun began.



After this cut, I missed the fact that I can push at A, let white take the stone and connect up with my group on the right side. This would've been a false eye and everything would've been just fine.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . X . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O X X X . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X W a O O . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O X O . . X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . O O O X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X X O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O . O . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X . . O . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X X . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


But I connected the stone, creating a semeai between my stones on the right side and white's J group.
I've made this exchange, which is fine, but here leela rates A as 70% for black and B as <50% for black. I could not read that far and I was convinced that I can get C in sente (sente part being a threat to connect up) even if white pushes at D first. This was my evaluation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . X . O a X . . c . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . O X . . X W . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O X X X d b O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X O O O O . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O X O . . X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . O O O X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X X O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O . O . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X . . O . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X X . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Unfortunately, I completely missed the fact that white's block could put me in atari. It only occurred to me when I connected against the first atari.



This was a very big loss. I checked the SE quickly and found out that I'm now behind by about 15 points.
I thought that it was still ok - I had a lot of favorable endgame, so I decided to give it a shot.
The game went as follows:



I was consumed by the endgame evaluations and didn't really give the last white's move a second thought.
My thought process after seeing this move was: defending 2 stones? That's probably small now. Could I even poke that elephant's eye? Anyway, looks like an inefficient local move.
So I played elsewhere and got cut.

There isn't much to say. I tried a few things and managed to cut white in sente in order to attempt for a capturing race, but it was obviously unwinnable.



And on this note, I lost to a 7 kyu.

I'm not sure how I can fix it. I'm having this kind of issue for a few years now and it prevents me from playing better players, and therefore, improving faster.
I think that my win rate against 4k-8k players is almost exactly the same - the stronger ones don't try to play "these hopeless kinda moves" and the weaker ones play them constantly and make me blunder.

I've gotten over irritation and depression regarding this topic, so I've kind of accepted it already. But it's still unpleasant to me that it doesn't go away naturally. Even as I get stronger at reading - I've improved my fighting drastically since a few years ago, and yet these blunders remain in my game.
As I mentioned in the previous post, they're so consistent that I plan my game around them in order to maximize the winning chances.

I probably won't be posting reviews of games like these here anymore, one is enough. They happen all the time and it's how Go is for me. So there's no point going over more than just one of them. About 90% of the time they're reading blunders, the other 10% is maybe worth going over sometimes.

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 Post subject: Re: Pricking stones
Post #6 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:03 am 
Lives with ko

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Just a quick note: on the 2nd diagram I wouldn't even consider B in favor of A. B is just a dull low stone, helping a corner that is safe anyway, while A is important for safety for both.

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 Post subject: Re: Pricking stones
Post #7 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:08 am 
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moha wrote:
Just a quick note: on the 2nd diagram I wouldn't even consider B in favor of A. B is just a dull low stone, helping a corner that is safe anyway, while A is important for safety for both.


Interesting, why though?
My thinking, despite of what I've already said, is that white is 3rd line pincering a 4th line group, so with center being empty it's de facto safe already. So I counter attack by also taking points that I might potentially lose "beneath" this group.
It seems to be a reasonable strategy to me, it occurs often and I often prefer the pincer unless the center is crowded and unfavorable.

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 Post subject: Re: Pricking stones
Post #8 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:14 am 
Gosei

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jouseki wrote:
The game started in a regular way with these opponents. Here was the first decision, between A (or keima) and B. Due to the existence of C I chose the former, but I'm not sure if the position would be good for me had white defended against C and I'd be forced to play B or maybe cap that stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O c . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Did you consider c right away? (I don't know how good it is but it's my first instinct.)

Quote:
Here another decision. I prefer picking B in positions like this just because I like territory. But on this board I also chose B because if anything I have stones at C to run forward, if it will be necessary.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . a . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Did you consider kicking? (Also my first instinct.) In any case, letting White burrow under your side group seems pretty bad while you are still fighting for a base.
Quote:
After this cut, I missed the fact that I can push at A, let white take the stone and connect up with my group on the right side. This would've been a false eye and everything would've been just fine.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . X . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O X X X . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X W a O O . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O X O . . X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . O O O X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X X O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O . O . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X . . O . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X X . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


a is in fact my first instinct. I'm not sure what to say about this except that it is something you have to train yourself to look for instantly (as you know!). I train myself to do this by making flashcards with very simple problems that I should be able to solve on sight. There are some Japanese books with "ひと目" (literally, "at a glance", I think) in their titles that are good for this, like this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Pricking stones
Post #9 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:18 am 
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I think it's just a matter of style, as I wrote B feels less urgent and I don't like leaving A for the opponent. I guess I'm not a territorial player. ;) I'm not saying it's better or worse objectively (best would probably be tenuki anyway).

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 Post subject: Re: Pricking stones
Post #10 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:29 am 
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dfan wrote:
Did you consider c right away? (I don't know how good it is but it's my first instinct.)


Not really, because I know that C ends in gote for black all the time, unless white makes a mistake and keeps pushing.
After white gets sente, white can comfortably approach the corner. Having a 2 space extension already means that if black responds in the corner (kick or back off), white can take sente again.
This way white takes a complete control over the fuseki. Losing sente so many times is definitely bad.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


dfan wrote:
Did you consider kicking? (Also my first instinct.) In any case, letting White burrow under your side group seems pretty bad while you are still fighting for a base.


If I chose A, then I would probably contemplate between kicking and just "jumping down".
I don't like the kick that much when I'm attacking because it opens the possibility of hane under, which is always forcing in a position like this. But it depends. Maybe I'd kick here if I committed to preserving the base for this group.
You can see my previous response as to why I didn't choose defending the base.

dfan wrote:
a is in fact my first instinct. I'm not sure what to say about this except that it is something you have to train yourself to look for instantly (as you know!). I train myself to do this by making flashcards with very simple problems that I should be able to solve on sight. There are some Japanese books with "ひと目" (literally, "at a glance", I think) in their titles that are good for this, like this one.


I will definitely check out those books.
What do you mean by flashcards? Do you use some tool for this? Did you compile your own collection or did you get it from somewhere?

moha wrote:
I think it's just a matter of style, as I wrote B feels less urgent and I don't like leaving A for the opponent. I guess I'm not a territorial player. ;) I'm not saying it's better or worse objectively (best would probably be tenuki anyway).


Got it. By the way, I just checked the position with Leela, and she suggests a pincer too, but a different one. She suggests to play a keima jump to the side from the corner stone (northwest intersection from B)
I don't understand her suggestion though.

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 Post subject: Re: Pricking stones
Post #11 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:34 am 
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On second thought I think it's mostly the "low stone near my other low stone" which makes B look dull to me. If the corner were higher it would feel very different.

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 Post subject: Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
Post #12 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:59 pm 
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Actually it was this diagram that really struck me. b (to me) feels like a complete no-brainer, I'd go so far as to call it a https://senseis.xmp.net/?Tennozan

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . c . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


You're right that the territorial benefits are not immediately obvious, but the control it helps you assert over the rest of the middle game battle will be massive. If white follows up with a, you are induced to play a corner move to secure your corner and leave white uncomfortable.

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 Post subject: Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
Post #13 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:10 pm 
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quantumf wrote:
Actually it was this diagram that really struck me. b (to me) feels like a complete no-brainer, I'd go so far as to call it a https://senseis.xmp.net/?Tennozan


I agree, maybe I overthought this one. Normally I'd bend without hesitation, but here I thought that white doesn't have a local move a response to which by black wouldn't hurt the other white stone, so I was kinda pushing white into making such move.

quantumf wrote:
You're right that the territorial benefits are not immediately obvious, but the control it helps you assert over the rest of the middle game battle will be massive. If white follows up with a, you are induced to play a corner move to secure your corner and leave white uncomfortable.


As for this, I'm not very good at using influence when the opponent already got stones around it. For example, assuming the following scenario happens and white even hands me sente, I can't really tell whether I will be able to contain white's stone with A-D and whether I'll be able to eventually profit from it. But maybe on this board the bottom side has some potential for black, but it might mean giving white the bottom side, so it's hard for me to evaluate this.

Assume that white's top group is alive, I know that it needs a few more exchanges

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W O O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X X . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b a . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . c d . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
Post #14 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:31 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W O O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X X . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b a . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . c d . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


In this position I would evaluate black as so far ahead that the game is already over. Containing the lone white stone would be pretty low on my list of priorities, I'd want to attack the group on the left and I'd also want to prevent the white group on top from bending and weakening my shape. Still, the lead is so massive, probably just about anything vaguely central and somewhat multipurpose would be enough to solidify the advantage.

Edit: having thought about it a bit more, this is not that instructive a position. Your lead is so gigantic that the previous choice of a or b is moot. I just wanted to emphasize the importance of following your instinct to bend.

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 Post subject: Re: Pricking stones
Post #15 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:54 pm 
Gosei

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jouseki wrote:
dfan wrote:
a is in fact my first instinct. I'm not sure what to say about this except that it is something you have to train yourself to look for instantly (as you know!). I train myself to do this by making flashcards with very simple problems that I should be able to solve on sight. There are some Japanese books with "ひと目" (literally, "at a glance", I think) in their titles that are good for this, like this one.
I will definitely check out those books.
What do you mean by flashcards? Do you use some tool for this? Did you compile your own collection or did you get it from somewhere?
I use the spaced repetition program Anki. One can cut and paste screen captures or try to do something more interactive, since Anki understands JavaScript. A friend helped me get set up with this code for interactive go problems but honestly I don't understand it that well. I make my own cards; I think it's pretty essential to do so for one's own understanding.

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 Post subject: Re: Pricking stones
Post #16 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 2:44 pm 
Honinbo

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jouseki wrote:
Just finished the game that I think could be the most indicative of how my games usually go. An iconic game you could say.
I'm very embarrassed for playing this way, but no matter what I try to do, I can't ever fix it.


You mean making blunders?

Quote:
The game started in a regular way with these opponents. Here was the first decision, between A (or keima) and B. Due to the existence of C I chose the former, but I'm not sure if the position would be good for me had white defended against C and I'd be forced to play B or maybe cap that stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O c . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Before the bot era I would have played at c, because it's a good play and also makes :wc: look bad. But it seems that the bots prefer a or the keima.

Quote:
Here another decision. I prefer picking B in positions like this just because I like territory. But on this board I also chose B because if anything I have stones at C to run forward, if it will be necessary.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . a . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


b is a good pincer. :)

Quote:
Here yet another decision in which I chose the territorial one. The shape move is B and leela prefers B as well, but I like moves like A. With B I know that I reduce the liberties and ruin the shape, but I can't see where my profit will be from this situation.
I thought that if black pushes at B as a response, I'll extend and ruin his shape anyway, so if he defends elsewhere I should be up on territory after enclosing at C a bit later.
Leela disagrees with my decision, but unfortunately she can't speak, so I couldn't ask her why so.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . c . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


b is good, everyone agrees. :) c is for wusses. But your move, a, is also good, surely playable. :)

Quote:
This was my first major directional mistake I think. I chose to connect up the 2 stones with A, but the obviously right move was B. Regardless of whether or not I would be able to save B, just at least extending the cutting stones once would already be extremely good for black.
Leela agrees with that, she says that B is the only move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O O . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . b X O . . X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O O W O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . a . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Even as an SDK I would have been embarrassed to play at a. I might not have found b, but I would have continued the attack. (White is not going to make an eye anywhere around a)

Quote:
At this point of the game, I'm extremely ahead, which is expected against a weaker opponent. However, this is where the pricking starts.
There goes the first move.
In this position I usually consider A or B. I thought that after playing A I should be able to hane at C if white pushes. After that, the shape is well known - white can't get anything better than the "straight J group" in the corner, which is ko.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W e c X X . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a d X . . O O . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O X O . . X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . O O O X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X X O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O . O . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X . . O . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X X . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


a and b look like the ways to go for the kill, as opposed to a ko. (If all you are going for is ko, d and e are more solid plays.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O . . X X . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 2 B . . O O . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 5 3 . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O X O . . X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . O O O X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X X O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O . O . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X . . O . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X X . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


At this point in my reading I would say something is wrong. Here I am trying to kill but because of the weakness of the :bc: stone I play :b3: and then I am forced to connect with :b5: to save :b1:. :sad: Maybe this is OK, but I would switch to the attack at b and see if it works better. I can always come back here if it doesn't.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O 6 7 X X . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 2 B . . O O . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 5 3 . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O X O . . X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . O O O X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X X O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O . O . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X . . O . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X X . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


You already took the weakness of :bc: into account (with :b3:), but now you don't think it will be a problem?

BTW, did you consider the White slide to a instead of :w6:?


Quote:
After this cut, I missed the fact that I can push at A, let white take the stone and connect up with my group on the right side. This would've been a false eye and everything would've been just fine.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . X . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O X X X . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X W a O O . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O X O . . X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . O O O X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X X O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O . O . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X . . O . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X X . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I don't know what you mean by that.

Quote:
But I connected the stone, creating a semeai between my stones on the right side and white's J group.
I've made this exchange, which is fine, but here leela rates A as 70% for black and B as <50% for black. I could not read that far and I was convinced that I can get C in sente (sente part being a threat to connect up) even if white pushes at D first. This was my evaluation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . X . W a X . . c . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . W X . . X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O X X X d b O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X O O O O . O X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . O X O . . X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . O O O X X O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X X X O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O . O . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X . . O . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X X . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I dunno. It seemed to me that once you have been cut in two you are very probably going to have to capture at least the :wc: stones to kill the corner. Even if you squeak by and connect or make small life on top, your group in the top left has not yet made eyes.

Quote:
Unfortunately, I completely missed the fact that white's block could put me in atari. It only occurred to me when I connected against the first atari.


If you had been thinking about killing the corner you would not have missed the first atari, or the throw in play that made it possible.

Quote:
I was consumed by the endgame evaluations and didn't really give the last white's move a second thought.
My thought process after seeing this move was: defending 2 stones? That's probably small now. Could I even poke that elephant's eye? Anyway, looks like an inefficient local move.


When I was taking martial arts, we were told that when playing (i.e., sparring) against a novice, pretend that he or she is a master. :)

Quote:
I'm not sure how I can fix it. I'm having this kind of issue for a few years now and it prevents me from playing better players, and therefore, improving faster.
I think that my win rate against 4k-8k players is almost exactly the same - the stronger ones don't try to play "these hopeless kinda moves" and the weaker ones play them constantly and make me blunder.


I looks like if your stronger opponents knew your weakness, they might wipe the floor with you. ;) But maybe not. Maybe not, because you would give their moves credit and would not make the same blunders against them as you make against weaker players. You would not ignore the weaknesses in your position and would wonder how they might take advantage of them. Your spidey sense would tingle. Does it tingle against your weaker opponents? If it did, would you make so many blunders? (Everybody makes blunders. Fewer is better. :))

First, you are not giving your opponents enough credit. Better give them too much credit than too little. Play against them as you would against the Meijin.

Second, you engage in wishful thinking. E. g., "I can threaten to connect in sente, and then make two eyes." Or: "I could connect out and everything would have been fine."

Third, and related to the first two, you engage in one sided reading (katte yomi). Most of one's reading should be from the viewpoint of one's opponent, not of oneself. (Planning is different. With planning you want to figure out your goals and how to accomplish them. But then with reading you are primarily trying to see how your opponent might thwart your goals or achieve his or her own goals.) If you read from your opponent's point of view, you will not be able to read as deeply in the same amount of time, because you will be reading more broadly, to take into account whatever your opponent may throw at you. Then you will see your opponent's threats and take them seriously. And you will probably make fewer blunders. :)

Edit: An example of all of the above is that you leave weaknesses in your positions without considering how your opponent may attack or take advantage of them. It is not good, in general, to play too defensively, but that is not your problem.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Pricking stones
Post #17 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 3:05 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
At this point in my reading I would say something is wrong. Here I am trying to kill but because of the weakness of the :bc: stone I play :b3: and then I am forced to connect with :b5: to save :b1:. :sad: Maybe this is OK, but I would switch to the attack at b and see if it works better.


Fair enough. I was probably way too cautious about the weakness of that stone, I should've definitely poked on the 2nd line somehow.


Bill Spight wrote:
BTW, did you consider the White slide to a instead of :w6:?


Nope, I missed it in my reading.

Bill Spight wrote:
When I was taking martial arts, we were told that when play (i.e., sparring) against a novice, pretend that he or she is a master. :)

I looks like if your stronger opponents knew your weakness, they might wipe the floor with you. ;) But maybe not. Maybe not because you would give their moves credit and would not make the same blunders against them as you make against weaker players. You would not ignore the weaknesses in your position and would wonder how they might take advantage of them. Your spidey sense would tingle. Does it tingle against your weak opponents? If it did, would you make so many blunders? (Everybody makes blunders. Fewer is better. :))

First, you are not giving your opponents enough credit. Better give them too much credit than too little. Play against them as you would against the Meijin.


I definitely do. I've long overcame the mindset in which I don't value my opponent's moves or involve any kind of emotions (anger/disgust/etc) in the evaluation.
Sorry if my choice of words made you think that way. I do indeed play the opponent as if they were at least even, regardless of their rank. In fact, if I ever try to take advantage of the fact that my opponent is weaker, I usually collapse even more (see - second blunder, which happened after I was focused on catching up by 15 points in the endgame).

Bill Spight wrote:
Second, you engage in wishful thinking. E. g., I can threaten to connect in sente, and then make two eyes. I could connect out and everything would have been fine.


Not sure exactly if it was wishful thinking on my part, I was just trying to make the position more efficient, i.e. I wanted to avoid directly capturing the corner stones and playing "inside moves". I think it's a common way of thinking for higher level players?
But my reading wasn't enough. If my reading was enough to see that I'm hoping for too much, I would definitely not do it. At the time of playing those moves I was convinced that it should work out.

Bill Spight wrote:
Third, and related to the first two, you engage in one sided reading. Most of one's reading should be from the viewpoint of one's opponent, not of oneself. (Planning is different. You want to figure out your goals and how to accomplish them. Then with reading you are trying to see how your opponent might thwart your goals or achieve his or her own goals.) If you read from your opponent's point of view, you will not be able to read as deeply in the same amount of time, because you will be reading more broadly, to take into account whatever your opponent may throw at you. Then you will see your opponent's threats and take them seriously. And you will probably make fewer blunders. :)


I'm trying to "read broadly" for a while now and consider all possible local moves, but sometimes I don't make it in time. My usual time settings are 30 seconds per move + some main time, so unless I'm in the main time I often have to severely shrink the areas that I read out. I hope that it will become better with time, or maybe people would start playing slower games.
I feel like I make most of my blunders while I'm in byo-yomi. Maybe it's the actual cause of what's wrong with my game. But I'm not sure, if other players can be more consistent using the same amount of time then I should be able to do this as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Pricking stones
Post #18 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 3:33 pm 
Honinbo

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jouseki wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
BTW, did you consider the White slide to a instead of :w6:?


Nope, I missed it in my reading.


Well, putting myself in White's position, the slide is the first thing I would have considered. It sounds like Uberdude's advice to improve your choice of candidate moves (your "policy network) is good. :)

Bill Spight wrote:
First, you are not giving your opponents enough credit. Better give them too much credit than too little. Play against them as you would against the Meijin.


Quote:
I definitely do. I've long overcame the mindset in which I don't value my opponent's moves or involve any kind of emotions (anger/disgust/etc) in the evaluation.


My mistake. :)

Bill Spight wrote:
Second, you engage in wishful thinking. E. g., I can threaten to connect in sente, and then make two eyes. I could connect out and everything would have been fine.


Quote:
Not sure exactly if it was wishful thinking on my part, I was just trying to make the position more efficient, i.e. I wanted to avoid directly capturing the corner stones and playing "inside moves". I think it's a common way of thinking for higher level players?


All I can say about that is, first, I would not have imagined that I could either connect my top group or make two eyes in a 2x2 square. Second, I would not have thought that it was obvious that my left side group could make two eyes if attacked first. Both groups have to be secure to let the White corner die with only one eye.

Bill Spight wrote:
Third, and related to the first two, you engage in one sided reading. Most of one's reading should be from the viewpoint of one's opponent, not of oneself. (Planning is different. You want to figure out your goals and how to accomplish them. Then with reading you are trying to see how your opponent might thwart your goals or achieve his or her own goals.) If you read from your opponent's point of view, you will not be able to read as deeply in the same amount of time, because you will be reading more broadly, to take into account whatever your opponent may throw at you. Then you will see your opponent's threats and take them seriously. And you will probably make fewer blunders. :)


Quote:
I'm trying to "read broadly" for a while now and consider all possible local moves, but sometimes I don't make it in time. My usual time settings are 30 seconds per move + some main time, so unless I'm in the main time I often have to severely shrink the areas that I read out.


I admire your tenacity. In Golden Opportunities (I think that's the English title) Rin Kaiho suggests leaving ⅓ of your total time to read out a single, decisive play. So if your games normally last an hour an a half, you want to reserve 15 minutes to do that. You can do that, a lot of players do not have either the patience or tenacity. :)

As for reading broadly, that is about looking for the opponent's plays, not your own. If you consider three candidate moves for yourself. consider five for your opponent. If you like one move for yourself, look for three possible counters. Reading broadly degenerates into brute force reading if you do not have good ways to find strong candidate moves. Consider Uberdude's advice.

Quote:
I feel like I make most of my blunders while I'm in byo-yomi. Maybe it's the actual cause of what's wrong with my game. But I'm not sure, if other players can be more consistent using the same amount of time then I should be able to do this as well.


Time trouble doth make fools of us all. :) But at least in these games you consistently overlook flaws and weaknesses in your position. Focus on them and your opponents will have more trouble taking advantage of them. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
Post #19 Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:26 pm 
Honinbo

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For your consideration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKVVhBoo13w

:)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
Post #20 Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:19 am 
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Bill Spight wrote:


That's a very insightful video, thanks a lot for sharing it.


This post by jouseki was liked by: Bill Spight
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