How is your positional judgement?

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:39 am

Game 13, no-Lizzie analysis

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:38 am

My discussion of Elf's commentary on Game 12, hidden for convenience.

GoGoD 1995-09-30a. Yang Keon, 3 dan (W) vs. Lee Changho, 7 dan. 5½ pt. komi.

After

Elf estimates Black's winrate as 96½% with only 8.8k playouts. (I suppose that there were a lot of reasonable options for

.) Black, Lee Changho, won by resignation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Black is ahead. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . O . . . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Elf's mainline game continuation for

.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm30 Mainline game continuation (32.3k playouts) $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . W . . 3 X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is big. But then there are several reasonable plays for Black, so the number of playouts per move drops precipitously. That is why Elf's variation stops so soon. There are just too few playouts to have confidence in further plays.

attacks the

stone, and then

attaches for sabaki.

Earlier in the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm4 White feels his oats $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is and was unusual. Yang was 19 or 20, and was feeling his oats. He has since made 9 dan, and Sensei's Library says that "Yang uses experimental corner plays." Elf thinks that

loses 12% from par, and also that

loses 8% by comparison with the enclosure at a.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm7 Black returns the favor $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . a . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 1 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Elf thinks that

loses 12% by comparison with the usual joseki play, the hane at 8. Then Elf thinks that

loses 9½% by comparison with the kosumi at a, which seems kind of obvious when you see it. But

was joseki at the time and is still the majority choice on Waltheri.

When I was learning go

was the textbook play. The reasoning was that, although it was only a 3 space extension from the 3 stone Black wall, that was OK because a White keima at b would require a response. Better just to take a slight hit. Also, Takagawa taught that the Black wall needed an extension because it had no eye potential (or very little). OC, today's bots will have none of that. Elf regards

as losing 13% by comparison with c, approaching the top left corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Elf's mainline variation for :b11: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . 7 . 6 . . 8 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After

White chooses one of Elf's favorite joseki, the kick and extend one space on the third line. Then Black plays the double keima at E-07. Don't let the double keima get away, as the saying goes. To me this is the answer to the conundrum of how to support the weakish Black wall. Don't extend. Play the double keima instead.

plays a wedge on the bottom side, "killing Black's influence," as the amateur saying goes.

approaches

and makes some territory.

makes a base.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm19 Elf's mainline variation for :b11:, continued $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . 5 4 6 . . . 2 . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . 7 X . O . . O 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

and

attack the White group on the bottom side. Then

and

defend and force a bit of overconcentration on Black. Then

invades the top right corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 Splitting play is a mistake. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White played the splitting play,

, instead of enclosing the top left corner. Note that it is at R-09, not R-10. The reason, as Sakata explained in his writings, is that it is closer to the Black moyo on the bottom side, which means that

can extend only as far as R-07 instead of R-08 (b), making a bigger moyo. Be that as it may, Elf thinks that

loses a whopping 18% by comparison with a. Today's bots really devalue the sides early in the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 Elf's mainline variation for :w12: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 6 X 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After

encloses the top left corner,

does not play the "big" point on the right side, but makes a tight enclosure of the bottom right corner. Elf has a slight preference for this enclosure over the one at a, perhaps because it is closer to making territory.

invades the top right corner.

blocks on the right side and follows up with

to create a large sphere of influence.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Elf's mainline variation for :b13: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Elf regards

as a minor error, losing 5½% by comparison with this approach to the top left corner. White plays one of Elf's favorite joseki, and then

encloses the bottom right corner. It does not appear that

at R-09 (marked) has hampered Black in any way.

Back to the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 Questionable extension $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The extension,

, was questionable at the time, without an enclosure of the top left corner. Elf thinks that it loses 9% to par. (Usually in these discussions I do not mention losses under 10%, but I think that these are of some interest, and they do add up to White's disadvantage.) Elf also considers

as a minor error, losing 6½% by comparison with the enclosure at a. Takagawa wrote that it was OK to tenuki instead of making a base for

after the approach,

, because if Black now pincered

, White could be satisfied with having prevented Black from making the ideal extension on the right side. That reasoning no longer holds up, as Black is in no hurry to play on the right side. But Elf still prefers the enclosure over the base.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm14 Elf's variation for :w14: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After

encloses the top left corner,

encloses the top right. Note that it leaves White room to make a base with the two space extension. Note also that White does not do so, preferring the Go Seigen/AI shoulder blow. Whether that is because Elf regards the two space base as weak, or because at this point it prefers central influence to territory, Elf does not say.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm16 Elf's mainline variation for :w16: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 3 . 2 . . 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . 4 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After

encloses the top left corner,

extends only to L-17, inviting the White extension to J-17. After each side has made a moyo on the top side,

attacks the White group on the right side while enlarging the Black sphere of influence in the bottom half of the board. Then

invades Black's top side moyo. The stratagem of

is interesting.

Back to the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm17 Dirk bad? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . a 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Elf thinks that

loses 9½% by comparison with the underneath attachment at a.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 Elf's mainline variation for :w18: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 Q . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 5 . . 8 . . | $$ | . . 3 , . 6 . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . | $$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

=

and

secure the corner, then

turns to the top left corner. After

White lets the top left corner fend for itself and attacks the top right corner. Note

. Many players would play

(

) instead.

Back to the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm19 Little Bad Peep $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 , 6 . a . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 9 . O . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Elf thinks that the peep,

, loses 11½% by comparison with a.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 Elf's mainline variation for :w24: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . 9 . . . . . . . 5 . . . . | $$ | . . X O . 8 . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . X , 4 . 1 3 . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is a natural connection for the White stones on the top side. Black has other reasonable options for

, which gets 24.4k playouts. Elf's second choice is the pincer at a, which gets 13.5k playouts. White's connection is secure, so

shifts to the submarine attack against the top left corner.

is a calm, solid response. Then

is a shape play to take away a possible eye shape for Black. It is striking to me how often Elf chooses plays that prevent the opponent from making good shape.

Not exactly a conclusion.

To me the main evidence of Black being so far ahead is the disarray of the White stones. On each side White has stones that don't seem to be doing much. The stones in the top left are disconnected and high. The stone on the top side is not connected to White's corner stones. The stone on the bottom side is a singleton, and White's base on the right side is weak. Elf's review of the game to date indicates that the main culprits are Elf's failure, time and again, to enclose the top left corner, the splitting play on the right side, the extension on the top side, and the peep in the top left instead of connecting to the White stone on the top side.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:05 pm

Game 14

After

Elf gives one player a winrate estimate of 91% (24.4k playouts). Which player is it?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm34 Black to play. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Enjoy!

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:12 pm

Without analyzing the position thoroughly, I would say that White is ahead. White has territory in 3 places and a flexible stone in the 4th, plus komi. Black has all his eggs in that central basket and it's not a very well defined basket. Myself I'm not very good at invading or reducing huge spheres of influence, as I tend to overplay and die. But I'm quite confident the bots don't like Black's influence strategy.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Analysis $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . b . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . a . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X 1 . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O O . X . d . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Adding some analysis: if Black wants to make a sizeable moyo, he should probably start here, because if he doesn't, then a White move there would destroy any plan in the center. White has many places to start: A to make a dent into the moyo and threaten a large corner. B to make shape for life, C for reduction and expansion, D similar to B, and E is a cutting point. Overall, it's hard to call Black "thick", he's rather thin.

It's hard to say where it went wrong for Black (who is probably Takemiya). The marked stone strikes me as "making central territory". Also, the 5-5 kosumi seems a bit lukewarm and not cooperating with other stones.

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:00 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Elf's mainline variation for :b11: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . 3 . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . 1 . 2 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The resilience bots find in walls without extensions never ceases to surprise me and may indeed void the neo-proverb "bots dislike influence".
I can see how the keima helps against

but how exactly does Black continue locally? a, b, c?

Bki · Post by **Bki** » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:07 pm

One one hand, black has that huge moyo while white has not much, on the other hand, that moyo is a bit too big and black is going all in on it turning into enough territory to win the game.

But, the right side looks like a complete disaster for white. Something like this could follow which seems to be good for black, though I'm not sure if it's the right timing :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Black to play. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Meanwhile the bottom can't really be counted as white territory yet, though he will probably get some of it. The top left corner is white's but what will happen on the rest of the left side is completely undecided.

I can't imagine black not being ahead.

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:19 pm

Bki wrote:
First I was positively surprised by your suggestion but then saw White has a countermeasure. Didn't see that from the start though.

$$B Black to play.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:26 pm

Knotwilg wrote:
$$W Elf's mainline variation for :b11:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . y . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 3 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . 1 . 2 . . . . . z . . |
$$ | . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Elf's mainline variation for :b11: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . y . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . 3 . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . 1 . 2 . . . . . z . . | $$ | . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The resilience bots find in walls without extensions never ceases to surprise me and may indeed void the neo-proverb "bots dislike influence".

I don't think that our current understanding of outside influence approaches what the bots are doing. My impression of AlphaGo was that it was very center oriented by comparison with today's pros, other bots not so much. With Elf I feel like it's corners first (and occupying the last open corner is important), sides second, and center almost any time (but not independently).

I can see how the keima helps against but how exactly does Black continue locally? a, b, c?

was not on Elf's radar, so the commentaries are not revealing about that question. Elf's other revealed choices besides 2 were y and z. What does LZ have to say?

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:38 pm

Bki wrote:
One one hand, black has that huge moyo while white has not much, on the other hand, that moyo is a bit too big and black is going all in on it turning into enough territory to win the game.

But, the right side looks like a complete disaster for white. Something like this could follow which seems to be good for black, though I'm not sure if it's the right timing :

$$B Black to play.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Great idea! In the commentary Elf shows how it is done.

$$B Black to play.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O 1 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 2 . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O 1 4 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O O . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This can be played with sente.

Meanwhile the bottom can't really be counted as white territory yet, though he will probably get some of it. The top left corner is white's but what will happen on the rest of the left side is completely undecided.
The double White keima in the top left corner is vulnerable, which is why you usually see one of them as a kosumi instead. Not that Black can't break through without preparation, but the threat is there.

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:14 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W LZ & Kata $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . 3 . 6 a , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . 1 . 2 . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . 5 c 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Both LeelaZero and Kata defend at

and then attack the white shape at

Next LZ sacrifices by pushing up at A, while Kata switches to the corner with B.
At

LZ is more optimistic (61%) than Kata (57%) about Black's chances.

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:25 pm

LZ about Bill's continuation of bki's suggestion

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:40 pm

Knotwilg wrote:LZ about Bill's continuation of bki's suggestion

Well, it's not beyond me over the board, but it is Elf's variation. I did not intend to say that Black should play it immediately. You'll have to wait for the later discussion to find out.

And I certainly pointed out that Black could play it with sente.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:16 am

Game 13.

My discussion of Elf's commentary.

Lee Changho, 7 dan (W) - Choe Myeonghun, 4 dan
1995-11-13c

After

Elf gives White a winrate of 88½% (30k playouts). White, Lee Changho, won by resignation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm30 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X X X . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O X X O O O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X X . X O O X . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Elf's continuation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Elf's mainline continuation $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X X X . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O X X O O O . 7 . . X . . . | $$ | . X X X . X O O B 2 . . 8 O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X 3 1 O . . . . 6 5 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

-

were played in the game, as well as Elf's top choices.

-

are Elf's mainline variation.

Earlier in the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm17 Boshi loses 17% $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

was totally off Elf's radar.

Elf's mainline variation for

.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm17 Elf's mainline for :b17: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O . . . , . . 4 3 . X 9 . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . O 8 6 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

With a winrate estimate of 58% (27.7k playouts),

is an example of the importance of occupying the last open corner.

makes a double approach, leading to a typical joseki.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm27 Elf's mainline for :b17:, continued $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . 5 . | $$ | . O O O O O . . . , . . O X . X X . . | $$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . O O O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Game continuation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 :b21: loses 15½% $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . a . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O 2 4 . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X X . X 3 O . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

loses 15½% by comparison with a (30.4k playouts).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Elf's mainline variation for :b21: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 1 . . 9 8 . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O X . 2 , 4 5 . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X X . X O O . . . 3 . W . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After

pushes out with a kosumi, then

pincers the

stone in the bottom right. White presses from the outside and then

attacks the

stone and Black pushes into the center.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm23 Elf's mainline continuation after :w22: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 0 . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B . . 9 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | 6 O O O O O X X W , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | 4 X X X . X O O . 2 . . . O . . . . . | $$ | 5 . 7 . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

indicates :w22; in the actual game. The rest is Elf's mainline variation.

jumps out into the center, then

makes a hanging connection. After

makes a table shape, White plays hane and connect with sente against the corner. Then White encloses the

stone.

Game continuation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm23 The cut, :b29, loses 11½% $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 5 1 3 a . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O X X O 2 6 . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X X . X O O 7 . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

forces

to connect with bad shape.

loses 13½% by comparion with the fifth line push at a (61.9k playouts).

Elf's mainline variation for

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Elf's mainline for :b29: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 B . 3 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X X X 1 5 . X . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O X X O O O 2 . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X X . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

presses along the 5th line with sente and then

makes a one space jump from the

stone, also with sente.

connects along the fifth line with sente, and later

makes a two space jump into the center.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:15 am

Game 15

After

Elf estimates the winrate for one player as 94½% (24k playouts). Which player is it?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 White to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . O , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Enjoy!

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:16 am

Life In 19x19

How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?