MikeKyle v. TelegraphGo (Blind)

MikeKyle · Post by **MikeKyle** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:48 am

14-3

O3

Edit - to include board coordinates, then to correct board coordinates

jlt · Post by **jlt** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:52 am

Did you mean O-3?

MikeKyle · Post by **MikeKyle** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:55 am

jlt wrote:Did you mean O-3?

Thanks, fixed

TelegraphGo · Post by **TelegraphGo** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:17 am

12-3

M3

MikeKyle · Post by **MikeKyle** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:19 am

17-3

R-3

TelegraphGo · Post by **TelegraphGo** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:57 am

16-3
Q3

Trigger:

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:18 am

Special diagram.

MikeKyle · Post by **MikeKyle** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:29 pm

17-4
R4

I'm not sure how this trigger business works. I won't look at the hidden text in case it spoils things but if someone independent wants to help out that might be useful.

TelegraphGo · Post by **TelegraphGo** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:49 pm

Trigger is just a way to abbreviate very obvious moves into a sequence to agree upon. I offer the joseki sequence B Q5, W Q2, B P2, W R2, B P3, W R6.
(In coordinates: B 16-5, W 16-2, B 15-2, W 17-2, B 15-3, W 17-6).

If you accept, open this hidden for my next move:

My comments:

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:41 pm

Spoiler: Diagram!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . 9 . 8 . . 0 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

16-16 Q16,

4-4 D4,

16-4 Q4,

4-16 D16,

6-3 F3,

3-6 C6

7-6 G6,

14-3 o3,

12-3 M3,

17-3 R3,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . O . 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

16-3 Q3,

14-7 R4,

Trigger: ( var:

at (a) )

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . 8 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . O 7 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a 5 4 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

MikeKyle · Post by **MikeKyle** » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:00 am

Sequence accepted!

10-4
K-4

TelegraphGo · Post by **TelegraphGo** » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:06 am

10-6
K6

My opening mission has been accomplished!

We're already starting a fight where if things go badly for him, he'll want to resign. If things go as expected, he should be able to live this group while making me strong nearby. If things go badly for me, I'll still have hope somewhere - he only has like 30 points on the board right now. One semi-normal result for example: I can get a full surround, with him living in gote in 2-5 points, and my taking 5-8 points from the whole moyo as is, such that the 3-3 invasion in the bottom left is a serious threat, then I would evaluate the board as still even. Don't forget that he can be pressed down significantly later on the right to activate any center influence that I get from this!

In terms of the precise placement of his move, I don't like it at all. Why play a fourth line stone that's one space away from the shoulder hit against a theoretically strong stone? If I invaded on the fourth line, I would start either with 11-4 (to tempt black into attacking from the stronger side) or with 8-4 [8-5 better?](aiming at the weakness of the large knight's move, and preparing to take a flexible shape with the shoulder hit later. If he absolutely must go somewhere randomly in the middle, I think the fourth line is too low, given my 6-th line stones on either side. 10-5 would still feel pretty bad for B if I submit with 9-4 or something, so it's much less awkward to respond than it has to be for me, right now.

As is, he's given me zero reason to go underneath, hasn't poked at my weaknesses on either side yet, and doesn't seem to have an efficient way to make two eyes on the bottom when I cap. If capping was somehow wrong, then I'd be supposed to play something like 8-4 here, but I don't like that shape on the left - leaving a slight shape weakness at 6-5, and not really giving myself a followup when he jumps out with some flexible shape (two space, large knight's, etc., because I think I could still cap and attack if he played one space.)

I like to give a prediction about his move, but I really can't here. Normally in this kind of shape, I think he might either try running the group with a combination of 8-4 and the attach at 9-6 next, but the large knight's move and 7-6 becomes so good there that I don't think he can bear it. Maybe he's going to try cutting my large knight's move early, something like W 6-4, B 7-4, W 7-3? I think it should be bad timing, since he just made an exchange that makes influence I get towards the bottom side more valuable. I'm pretty sure I can take advantage. If he attached 7-3 immediately for strength, then he fixes my weakness for me and I should be well off. If he goes to the right, then he's decided to run right next to my wall, and I should win by move 60. So I really have no idea what he's going to do here. Sorry!

(edited for grammar)

MikeKyle · Post by **MikeKyle** » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:14 pm

14-2
O2

TelegraphGo · Post by **TelegraphGo** » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:56 pm

14-1
O1

Hane underneath.
Cutting off his two stones. If I don't, he gets a living group right where the action is. I want him to not be alive where the action is.
The question is between the descent 15-1 or the hane under 14-1.

If I descend and he attaches on top of my lone stone next, at 12-4, my instinct is hane 13-4, and then things could get scary at some point if he crosscuts 13-3. [If he doesn't crosscut, I can take 11-3 comfortably or if he takes 11-3 I can atari and he has bad shape]. I want to be able to atari 11-4 and extend up 11-5. I don't think I can, though, because he can cut and descend, leaving my stones with two liberties and I can't capture his stones fast enough. If I atari and connect he would roll over top of me and I would be a little bit sad. So, when he crosscuts I should extend my stone down with 12-2 or across with 11-3. If he then connects 11-4 and I capture his three stones with 14-4, then he can play the turn at 10-3 in sente, which makes me once again sad. That local strength from the turn makes it much easier to for him to look at cutting my large knights and otherwise doing dastardly things - it's a slightly poor result for black by my judgement.

If I had hane'd underneath, he would have one less liberty with his three stone he's crosscut with, so the turn would no longer be sente. This is magnitudes better for B, so I'd really like to hane instead of descend if it doesn't cause a tactical problem. What I'm talking about is that when I hane he can counterhane, and after I connect with the original descent he might make that exchange of 14-1 for 13-1 good for him. The simplest way to try such a thing is if he plays tigers mouth 12-2, attaching to my stone and almost connecting under. I would then be practically forced to play 11-3, but this is pretty nice, breaking his shape. This result is good for him only if he can get something good out of those four stones - so he might try to jump up at 14-5. I can then fix my shape with the forcing move at 16-6 and come back to my middle stones with a jump, something like 12-6. I think I like this result for black - it seems like he'll have to give me a lot if he wants to get out.

I have to do a blunder check for the first time this game. My plan was to keep a mental note of every shape weakness, and think about an tesuji he might have to take advantage whenever I'm a little unclear. Do I have any weaknesses that I haven't considered? I'm creating a weakness at 15-1, I have a very minor weakness on the right that I considered, and a some weaknesses with the large knight's move that I'm doing my best to help. I can't think of anything crazy he could do to make me sad just yet. So here goes! This is the first time I've ever actually played a hane underneath in this joseki.

MikeKyle · Post by **MikeKyle** » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:44 pm

13-1
N1

Edit: I accidentally hit send before finishing, and wrong letter coordinate. Oops

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