Kirby's Study Journal
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
My pleasure- I’m generally pretty transparent. Anyway, thanks for reading.Gomoto wrote:Thanks for sharing your BIBA experience.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Another translated video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ3nxm8DByI
This one took longer due to its length. But Choi Cheolhan goes over a lot of interesting variations.
This one took longer due to its length. But Choi Cheolhan goes over a lot of interesting variations.
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Gomoto
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
A "hidden gem" of a variation for black. I like to try this one in my games. Beautiful C16 move (can also be delayed until white G17 it seems).
P.S. not so hidden, but I did not know it yet
P.S. not so hidden, but I did not know it yet
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
I seem to recall Michael Redmond talking about C16 in the Redmond Reviews series on YouTube. But the choices of variations may have been a little bit different. Anyway, it's a cool variation.
The problem I have with this personally is that when I'm going through the video, I'm focusing on the phrases he is saying more than parsing the content or big picture meaning. This means that I parse a couple of sentences at a time, translate them, then they're gone - onto the next few seconds of video.
To really absorb the actual go content, I think I have to watch the video again after translating, without thinking about the language. I have a hard time translating and studying go at the same time, I guess.
I could see this manifested in the game I lost from BIBA last week: Choi Cheolhan had gone over several variations of the double approach on the 4-4. I vaguely recalled some of the shapes, since I had translated the video. I remember him saying you didn't have to worry about some cut at first, but eventually, the cut could become annoying - something like that. But I remembered no details. And in the actual game, I felt inclined to cut and I got a bad result.
Had I actually studied the video for go content, maybe I wouldn't have made that stupid cut, and I would have been better prepared!
Oh well... Further shows that my focus works best when I'm focusing on a single thing at a time.
The problem I have with this personally is that when I'm going through the video, I'm focusing on the phrases he is saying more than parsing the content or big picture meaning. This means that I parse a couple of sentences at a time, translate them, then they're gone - onto the next few seconds of video.
To really absorb the actual go content, I think I have to watch the video again after translating, without thinking about the language. I have a hard time translating and studying go at the same time, I guess.
I could see this manifested in the game I lost from BIBA last week: Choi Cheolhan had gone over several variations of the double approach on the 4-4. I vaguely recalled some of the shapes, since I had translated the video. I remember him saying you didn't have to worry about some cut at first, but eventually, the cut could become annoying - something like that. But I remembered no details. And in the actual game, I felt inclined to cut and I got a bad result.
Had I actually studied the video for go content, maybe I wouldn't have made that stupid cut, and I would have been better prepared!
Oh well... Further shows that my focus works best when I'm focusing on a single thing at a time.
be immersed
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mhlepore
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Is your new job keeping you in Michigan? Best wishes either way, but I recall you telling me about your home improvement adventures, and hope you get to keep building on what you've started. 
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sorin
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
This variation appeared publicly the first time I know of in the AlphaGo-KeJie match.
Gomoto wrote:A "hidden gem" of a variation for black. I like to try this one in my games. Beautiful C16 move (can also be delayed until white G17 it seems).
P.S. not so hidden, but I did not know it yet
Sorin - 361points.com
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Yeah, I’m gonna join Amazon in their Detroit office, so I don’t have to move. That being said, the commute is worse and the company is notorious for poor work life balance. So I might be heads down and away from the forum for awhile. But I won’t really know what it’s like until I get started. My goal is to establish a workable routine, and then fill in the cracks with family time. And then if there are still any cracks, see if I can get some sort of go routine again. But it’s really hard to say how things will play out at this point. The only thing I know for sure is that the commute is worse - have been stocking up on audiobooks to help with that.mhlepore wrote:Is your new job keeping you in Michigan? Best wishes either way, but I recall you telling me about your home improvement adventures, and hope you get to keep building on what you've started.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
I remember from Ke Jie’s match as well. I’ll see if I can find the Redmond video I saw - I believe it happened after Ke Jie’s game.sorin wrote:This variation appeared publicly the first time I know of in the AlphaGo-KeJie match.
Gomoto wrote:A "hidden gem" of a variation for black. I like to try this one in my games. Beautiful C16 move (can also be delayed until white G17 it seems).
P.S. not so hidden, but I did not know it yet
be immersed
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
I’m having a hard time finding it. It could very well have been Ke Jie’s game, but I seem to recall Redmond reviewing this pattern. He’s done a lot of videos with Chris Garlock, though, so it’s going to take time to find this pattern among those videos...Kirby wrote:I remember from Ke Jie’s match as well. I’ll see if I can find the Redmond video I saw - I believe it happened after Ke Jie’s game.sorin wrote:This variation appeared publicly the first time I know of in the AlphaGo-KeJie match.
Gomoto wrote:A "hidden gem" of a variation for black. I like to try this one in my games. Beautiful C16 move (can also be delayed until white G17 it seems).
P.S. not so hidden, but I did not know it yet
be immersed
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sorin
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Here's the exact moment in the video commentary when it was played: https://youtu.be/1U1p4Mwis60?t=3253Kirby wrote:I’m having a hard time finding it. It could very well have been Ke Jie’s game, but I seem to recall Redmond reviewing this pattern. He’s done a lot of videos with Chris Garlock, though, so it’s going to take time to find this pattern among those videos...Kirby wrote:I remember from Ke Jie’s match as well. I’ll see if I can find the Redmond video I saw - I believe it happened after Ke Jie’s game.sorin wrote:This variation appeared publicly the first time I know of in the AlphaGo-KeJie match.
And here's the game on the Deepmind website (if you scroll down a bit): https://deepmind.com/alphago-china#match_2
Sorin - 361points.com
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Thanks for looking these up, sorin. I still feel there was something else with Chris Garlock, too. Kind of bugging me, now. I might be hallucinating. Either way, I think you’re right that the Ke Jie game might have been the first with this particular shape and result.
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skydyr
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Perhaps slightly off the direct topic, but after a couple year hiatus I'm coming back to go and I found myself reading your study journal because I wanted to make sure your son was still doing ok. Of course in the process I read a lot of the rest of it over the past few years.
You talked a lot about Inseong saying you had too aggressive a style maybe last fall or so, and what he said coincided with my own opinion of your style. I've noticed, though, that you never seem to talk about counting. You have game positions and then say something like "I felt behind" or "black's area looked big" but it's not clear to me what exactly is driving those evaluations. I might recommend whenever you feel one way or the other that you practice taking a count of solid territory on the board, and then calculate potential territory that each side has. Once you have those numbers, you can decide on a calm course of action to keep the game in balance.
When you look at a big moyo on its own, it's easy to think that white's going to get a huge territory there. If you count and say well I have 40 points here plus potential for another 40 in these areas, and they have 10 points plus potential for 80 points over there, it gives you a solid understanding of what you need to do. When you see that all you actually need is to prevent your opponent from getting 10 points in an area, it's much easier to consider a calm reduction that helps them solidify territory, but just not quite enough.
From my own playing, I tend to play much more this way than all out fighting, and perhaps unsurprisingly my study routine was much different, to the point where I think my reading was below par for my level. My studying style was to read and play over pro games, and particularly older Japanese pro games, with the idea of familiarizing myself with what can be considered normal both consciously and unconciously. I think that this made me approach the game with the idea that if we've played an even number of moves, the board should be balanced unless someone has made a grievous mistake. So as long as I am achieving an objective I can feel free to sacrifice on a larger scale or allow my opponent to make points in an area. I also studied counting, and by extension endgame plays. I don't know that this is a magic bullet and don't claim to have ever been as strong as you, but since it seems very much the opposite of the way you seem to spend your go time, you might find it useful.
You talked a lot about Inseong saying you had too aggressive a style maybe last fall or so, and what he said coincided with my own opinion of your style. I've noticed, though, that you never seem to talk about counting. You have game positions and then say something like "I felt behind" or "black's area looked big" but it's not clear to me what exactly is driving those evaluations. I might recommend whenever you feel one way or the other that you practice taking a count of solid territory on the board, and then calculate potential territory that each side has. Once you have those numbers, you can decide on a calm course of action to keep the game in balance.
When you look at a big moyo on its own, it's easy to think that white's going to get a huge territory there. If you count and say well I have 40 points here plus potential for another 40 in these areas, and they have 10 points plus potential for 80 points over there, it gives you a solid understanding of what you need to do. When you see that all you actually need is to prevent your opponent from getting 10 points in an area, it's much easier to consider a calm reduction that helps them solidify territory, but just not quite enough.
From my own playing, I tend to play much more this way than all out fighting, and perhaps unsurprisingly my study routine was much different, to the point where I think my reading was below par for my level. My studying style was to read and play over pro games, and particularly older Japanese pro games, with the idea of familiarizing myself with what can be considered normal both consciously and unconciously. I think that this made me approach the game with the idea that if we've played an even number of moves, the board should be balanced unless someone has made a grievous mistake. So as long as I am achieving an objective I can feel free to sacrifice on a larger scale or allow my opponent to make points in an area. I also studied counting, and by extension endgame plays. I don't know that this is a magic bullet and don't claim to have ever been as strong as you, but since it seems very much the opposite of the way you seem to spend your go time, you might find it useful.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Thank you. That means a lot. My son has been doing well for quite some time, now. I still worry about his health often; it will forever be a concern until one of us dies. In the meantime, I hope to have many good moments with him - I hope the new job doesn't disrupt that too much!skydyr wrote:Perhaps slightly off the direct topic, but after a couple year hiatus I'm coming back to go and I found myself reading your study journal because I wanted to make sure your son was still doing ok.
I think your assessment is pretty good. I *don't* often try to take a precise count of the board. As of late, I don't really count at all - my choices are often driven by intuition.skydyr wrote:
I've noticed, though, that you never seem to talk about counting. You have game positions and then say something like "I felt behind" or "black's area looked big" but it's not clear to me what exactly is driving those evaluations. I might recommend whenever you feel one way or the other that you practice taking a count of solid territory on the board, and then calculate potential territory that each side has. Once you have those numbers, you can decide on a calm course of action to keep the game in balance.
I think practicing counting would be helpful (though, some things are hard to assess, such as thickness or potential).
It's a little hard to change one's style, but maybe when I play another game, I'll try to be conscious about counting. I'll try to remember and post it in a review here. If I post a review without mentioning the count, feel free to remind me that I reneged on my promise
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
I played another game with Young Seon Yoon. She noted that viewership was a little down on the videos I've been translating for her. So I don't know how the plan will be going forward. Hopefully, she keeps making videos.
Anyway, here is our game:
I won the game, but have kind of weird feelings about it. I felt like she went easy on me compared to last time - I don't really know why, it was just a feeling.
She noted after the game that I didn't fight as much in this game as in our last one, so she didn't have a chance to do anything.
So I don't know if it's more that she went easy on me, or that I fought less, but anyway, the game was somewhat uneventful. We went over a few variations, which can be seen in the file.
Note: I don't know what's up with the second variation from the beginning of the tree. I'll clean up the SGF later. But you can see the main game from the main line.
Anyway, here is our game:
I won the game, but have kind of weird feelings about it. I felt like she went easy on me compared to last time - I don't really know why, it was just a feeling.
She noted after the game that I didn't fight as much in this game as in our last one, so she didn't have a chance to do anything.
So I don't know if it's more that she went easy on me, or that I fought less, but anyway, the game was somewhat uneventful. We went over a few variations, which can be seen in the file.
Note: I don't know what's up with the second variation from the beginning of the tree. I'll clean up the SGF later. But you can see the main game from the main line.
be immersed