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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #21 Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:45 pm 
Honinbo

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Mike Novack wrote:
You are going to save yourself a great deal of time if you stop pussyfooting around when increasing the strength of the bot.


Yes, indeed. The 7 kyu bot in game 9 is way too weak for you. Try the 3 kyu bot next time.

If you are going to play bots even, do what humans do. Play against a bot that can beat you at least half the time. Maybe it would be good if it beats you ⅔ of the time. Then play it until you beat it twice in a row, once as Black, once as White, and then up it one rank.

Good luck! :)

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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #22 Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:12 am 
Dies with sente

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I haven't played since a very long time, so this is something like a warm up from 15k to the top ;-).
These games were a big fun and it's easier for me to analyse a game and fix some mistakes instead of playing a very hard game and have ten times more mistakes to fix in the same time.

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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #23 Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:29 am 
Dies with sente

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Another game to analyse :tmbup:
The opening was bad and I also blundered in the middlegame.

Game 10


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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #24 Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:09 pm 
Dies with sente

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Game 11
What should I improve?


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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #25 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:25 am 
Gosei
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In the last game, :w12: was a good sente move to furhter strengthen your double wall and give Black a cramped position, which he got for not playing the atari in the joseki.

But then 16 and 18 are just confirming Black's life while adding no extra points. In effect, these are wasted kothreats.
20 is worse: Black' doesn't even have to respond. It's close to a pass move.
22 is again like 16 and 18: after that, Black is not just alive, the group is impossible to capture even if Black passes.

I haven't checked the rest of the game as there's enough learning material here:

1) don't play moves that don't accomplish anything else than that the opponent must answer
2) don't play moves that don't accomplush anything and the opponent doesn't have to answer at all

Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #26 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:35 am 
Oza
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Knotwilg wrote:
In the last game, :w12: was a good sente move to furhter strengthen your double wall and give Black a cramped position, which he got for not playing the atari in the joseki.

But then 16 and 18 are just confirming Black's life while adding no extra points. In effect, these are wasted kothreats.
20 is worse: Black' doesn't even have to respond. It's close to a pass move.
22 is again like 16 and 18: after that, Black is not just alive, the group is impossible to capture even if Black passes.

I haven't checked the rest of the game as there's enough learning material here:

1) don't play moves that don't accomplish anything else than that the opponent must answer
2) don't play moves that don't accomplush anything and the opponent doesn't have to answer at all

Cheers!

Isn't White the bot? White 12 should just cut with atari and capture the Black corner, no? black has misplayed here but is playing against too weak an opponent to learn better.

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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #27 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:04 am 
Judan

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My advice, stop playing this silly bot and play people. The silliness is contagious.

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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #28 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:14 am 
Lives in sente

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Uberdude wrote:
My advice, stop playing this silly bot and play people. The silliness is contagious.


Or play a less silly bot. As near as I can tell you are trying to use bots in a way that we tell you they should not be used.

Until it is a mmtter of the high level neural net bots or perhaps high level MCTS bots you should NOT try to use bots supposedly at your own level to play even games against. Use bots set about 3 stones higher than you are and take a three stone handicap. Now they will not do the silliness typical of your level, so you will be able to learn from them.

At your level, there are no bots suitable for you to play even games against.

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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #29 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:16 am 
Gosei
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ez4u wrote:
Isn't White the bot? White 12 should just cut with atari and capture the Black corner, no? black has misplayed here but is playing against too weak an opponent to learn better.


OK. Then my first advice is: tell us who you are :)

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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #30 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:29 pm 
Dies with sente

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Knotwilg wrote:
ez4u wrote:
Isn't White the bot? White 12 should just cut with atari and capture the Black corner, no? black has misplayed here but is playing against too weak an opponent to learn better.


OK. Then my first advice is: tell us who you are :)


I was black as you can see under the board.
White was CrazyStone DeepLearning (level 5 = 5 Kyu) running on iPad Pro 12.9-inch.

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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #31 Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 1:04 pm 
Dies with sente

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Game 12
What should I improve?


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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #32 Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 2:52 pm 
Gosei
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Move 72 is a pivotal point for me. If you could play again, what would be your preference?

Here are a few questions:

1) What's the status of Black's group on the left side? Alive? Killable? ALready dead?
If killable, is it worth it spending a move to do so or are there bigger plays?

2) How's White's moyo? Is it firm? Can it be invaded? Can it be torn apart?
Where would you reinforce it, if necessary?

3) How's Black's top? How does it compare to White's moyo, roughly?
Is it a good idea invading it? Or would you reduce it?

4) Bonus: how's Black's group in the lower right corner? Same questions as in 1.


At 108 you put yourself in a snap-back which is almost as basic as putting yourself into atari. There are two possible reasons for this
- you don't know about the snapback and then you need to invest in basic tesuji
- you were playing too fast and then you need to acquire some discipline in playing more slowly

Even without the snapback, Black would win the battle after ...
the cut at 101, which is the aji that White should have fixed at 72.


I like though that you kept playing after losing that group, which shows fighting spirit. You did quite well reducing the top but from 144 you start playing normal endgame while you are 30 points behind. I would give it a last shot to penetrate the top right and then resign if that doesn't work ... IF

the lower right corner wasn't waiting to be killed, which would reduce the gap with another 15 points. And this points to improvement of life & death

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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #33 Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 2:40 am 
Lives in gote

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I'd like to note that move 65 was a tsumego mistake of a type that comes up often in SDK games.
S1 is the vital point of that group. With the game move, white could kill it with S1.

This black group was left hanging by both players until move 230, when white forced black to secure his group.


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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #34 Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 2:57 am 
Dies with sente

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Knotwilg wrote:
Move 72 is a pivotal point for me. If you could play again, what would be your preference?

Here are a few questions:

1) What's the status of Black's group on the left side? Alive? Killable? ALready dead?
If killable, is it worth it spending a move to do so or are there bigger plays?

2) How's White's moyo? Is it firm? Can it be invaded? Can it be torn apart?
Where would you reinforce it, if necessary?

3) How's Black's top? How does it compare to White's moyo, roughly?
Is it a good idea invading it? Or would you reduce it?

4) Bonus: how's Black's group in the lower right corner? Same questions as in 1.


Move 72: I had the feeling that the position is completely lost for black. Since a long time.
:b71: at O7 was not a good move. I should have played at D8. Maybe F6 is even better. The Black's group should be save and F6 is invading White's moyo.
1) If White plays on D8 first the Black group is dead.
2) The lower half of White's moyo is save after G7 or G9 and the upper half not. It can be invaded at J11 or H11 or H10 or G10.
3) As Black I would play at J16 sooner or later. Maybe sooner. As White I would invade at the top before it becomes bigger than White's moyo.
4) Black's group in the lower right corner is alive but White can try a Ko fight later.

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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #35 Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 3:06 am 
Dies with sente

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gennan wrote:
I'd like to note that move 65 was a tsumego mistake of a type that comes up often in SDK games.
S1 is the vital point of that group. With the game move, white could kill it with S1.

This black group was left hanging by both players until move 230, when white forced black to secure his group.


Yes now I remember it. Thank you too very much.

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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #36 Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 2:12 pm 
Gosei
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OK you were Black. That changes everything.

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 Post subject: Re: My games to analyse
Post #37 Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:20 pm 
Lives in gote

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COMLv15k is rather weak for your level, it seems. Tends to make silly errors during play. If you can beat it more than 50% of the time, you will want to move on to an engine that can beat you at least 50% of the time. On KGS I often play (and lose) against SwissBot3 on 19x19. I estimate its strength to be around 2d, so I can learn a lot from it. GadgetoBot 6k is a good choice of you want a rival that isn't crazy strong, but still capable of kicking your butt. GadgetoBot also gives handicap stones. If you can beat GadgetoBot easily, SwissBot3 can give you plenty of interesting games.

Though, I recommend playing against human rivals whenever possible. They don't always play crazy AI-like moves that can be difficult for DDK or low-level SDK players to counter effectively.

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