Lopsided game - who, why and how?

Post your games here for other members to critique your play.
gennan
Lives in gote
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:08 am
Rank: EGF 3d
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: gennan
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 273 times
Been thanked: 147 times

Re: Lopsided game - who, why and how?

Post by gennan »

Bill Spight wrote:White has made two one space extensions from secure territory in both the bottom left and top left corners, and answered a peep, besides. That's inefficient.
I guess those went in a different move order: Black played a shoulder hit, white pushed on the 3rd line, black jumps, white extended.

But yes, getting in a situation where black gets both of those in sente may have been dubious for white.
Leon
Dies in gote
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:31 pm
Rank: EGF 2d
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Lopsided game - who, why and how?

Post by Leon »

I refuse to believe that such a position is anything but fantastic for black.
User avatar
Knotwilg
Oza
Posts: 2432
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:53 am
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 1021 times
Contact:

Re: Lopsided game - who, why and how?

Post by Knotwilg »

Black it is. Go to 49.

User avatar
Knotwilg
Oza
Posts: 2432
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:53 am
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 1021 times
Contact:

Re: Lopsided game - who, why and how?

Post by Knotwilg »

From another game of mine.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . X X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . , . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Can you tell the story of this game? Who has a 90% chance of winning here? Why? Who has made which mistake?
User avatar
Farodin
Dies in gote
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 6:25 am
Rank: EGF 1kyu
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: Farodin
Location: Leuven, Belgium
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Lopsided game - who, why and how?

Post by Farodin »

I think black is ahead by quite a bit.

White has roughly 38 solid points, while black has 10 (I'm not counting the upper left as points yet). However, when it comes to potential, black has a much more favourable position.

White has the following problems:
1. The bottom left corner is completely enclosed
2. The bottom right group is not yet settled
3. Even though white is extremely thick in the upper right (to the point where I would call it overconcentrated), black's bottom right stone on the 2nd line prevents the right side from becoming truly big for white.

So black roughly needs to make about 30 points to win this game, which seems very doable considering the 2 unsettled white groups (upper left and bottom right).

I suspect the bottom left started out as a black enclosure from a 4-4 point, so white choosing to go into the corner seems to give black exactly what he wanted. The bottom right also feels too good for black, considering each side spent an equal amount of moves.
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: Lopsided game - who, why and how?

Post by Bill Spight »

FWIW, I have a story. ;)



Worst play?
Solid connection at B-04.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
User avatar
Knotwilg
Oza
Posts: 2432
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:53 am
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 1021 times
Contact:

Re: Lopsided game - who, why and how?

Post by Knotwilg »

Bill Spight wrote:FWIW, I have
Worst play?
Solid connection at B-04.
Well, I played badly but not *that* badly
Your story is mostly what happened in the game, except that the bottom left was the result of an avalanche variation plus a bad tenuki in favor of the push up in the upper right, which was the worst play, I think. Also, your "congratulations" was spot on: too late did I realize capturing 3 stones was gluttonous.
rhwocns
Dies in gote
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:51 pm
Rank: 3k in a local town
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Lopsided game - who, why and how?

Post by rhwocns »

John Fairbairn
Oza
Posts: 3724
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:09 am
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 4672 times

Re: Lopsided game - who, why and how?

Post by John Fairbairn »

If we allow thinking outside the box, and going back to the very first position:

1. On the "balance of mistakes" theory, Black has had two stones captured (= wasted) and on the right has been pushed down to the second line.

2. On the "equilibrium theory", White has more stones on the crucial large X diagonals - and perhaps more importantly seems well poised to control even more (and therefore will have the flexibility to control the game strategically).

On either theory White should be considered to have a significant advantage (in pro terms of being able to lead a favourable position to a favourable conclusion). Putting the two together makes it a slam dunk.
Post Reply