2020 Samsung Cup

[John Fairbairn]

We said this a few months ago with Park Junghwan's mouse problems and timeout in the Nongshim cup!

That's not really comparable, because a sensible decision was made there to replay the game.

Without knowing precisely whether there was an element of direct fault by Sin Chin-seo, my first impression was that he was harshly done by. I would have expected the opponent, a referee or the sponsor to intervene and offer/suggest a replay.

However, what may have intervened here is that old chestnut of oriental 'face'. The Pak-Fan incident was Korea-China with a Korean sponsor and a technical mistake on the Korean side. The Sin-Ke incident was likewise Korea-China with a Korean sponsor and a technical mistake on the Korean side. I can easily imagine the Korean side thought it would be too much loss of face to ask for a replay again. And the Chinese side would have had the empathy not to suggest a replay and thus cause a loss-of-face dilemma.

[Kirby]

There's a brief interview with Shin Jinseo here: https://cyberoro.com/news/news_view.oro ... num=527199

I guess there's some sort of button you can press to object/appeal if there's a problem, and they asked him why he didn't use it after the mouse issue. He replied that he went back and forth over whether he should do it or not, but in the end figured that there was nothing he could really do about it.

Later in the interview, he also mentioned that going forward, he'll have more chances for tournaments like this, and he'd put forth more effort and try harder.

[Kirby]

The mouse-issue was unfortunate. In a way, it's good for Shin Jinseo to lose in the end, because maybe it could help lead to better preparation for these kinds of issues.

We said this a few months ago with Park Junghwan's mouse problems and timeout in the Nongshim cup!

Yeah, so hopefully, organizers for the Nongshim cup will prepare better for their next tournament, as well. I'd imagine that no matter what precautions and rules are put in place, there'll always be exceptional scenarios. But over time as those things happen, improvements will eventually come.

[hpyp]

According to Chinese news reports, the rules for this year's Samsung Cup mandate that a misclick be considered a legitimate move.

On Shin's misclick, Ke Jie commented after the match that he would have granted the undo if Shin had asked. You can read his comment in full at https://sports.sina.com.cn/go/2020-11-0 ... 1642.shtml (in Chinese).

[Uberdude]

From Stephen Hu at https://www.facebook.com/groups/go.igo. ... 6122906514

Just relaying part of the post-match interviews with Shin Jinseo and Ke Jie, on the subject of Game 1 (my personal thoughts in the comments below):

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SHIN JINSEO: I wasn't aware of the (trackpad sensitivity) issue which caused the misclick - I only realized the problem after it happened, which was already too late. I feel that both the Hankuk Kiwon and myself should have foreseen this before the match.

I was shocked at first, but ultimately decided to carry on without lodging any disputes. After all, misclicks are considered as mistakes on the goban.

I really fancied clinching this title, having prepared myself rigorously since the Round of 32 - so I do want to apologize to my fans for the eventual outcome. I am now in a difficult position, but I'll have plenty of other chances for which I'll work hard.

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KE JIE: I became fairly surprised when I saw the misclick. I thought he would ask for a pause or lodge a dispute, so I waited for quite a while before making my next move. I didn't know what was going on, and no one in the room reacted or talked to me, so in the end I decided to continue the game.
Even though that misclick turned out to be a very bad move, the game was far from being a done deal. I played some slack moves afterwards, but eventually I managed to keep applying pressure on him. Since he didn't lodge a dispute, I just carried on and tried my best in the remainder of the game.
I found the misclick itself quite funny, but I would have probably accepted an undo had he asked for it - not a total rematch, but an undo. But this is only hypothetical, since I didn't know how or why the incident occurred. I even turned around to see if there was any word in the room, but since no one approached me, I just carried on with the game.

I really didn't know what's going on...If I got up and said something, what if I got forfeited? So I just kept on playing. It was still very early stages in the game, and his winning chances got up to around 30%, but perhaps he wasn't feeling too well mentally. I just thought that I could not afford to lose that game, especially if my opponent had made a misclick. The pressure on me would be very difficult to overcome.

[Kirby]

Not 100% sure of Stephen Hu's source, but per the cyberoro record of the interview with Shin Jinseo, it's mostly similar to what Stephen wrote, except with regard to the first part:

이미 일어난 일이니까 지금은 어쩔 수 없고 선수나 한국기원이 신경 써야 할 것 같다

The nuance here isn't so much that he feels that he and the Hanguk Kiwon should have foreseen the issue before the match, but rather more like:

It already happened, so there's nothing we can do about it; it's something that players and/or the Hanguk Kiwon will have to pay attention to going forward.

The translation is basically correct otherwise, but to me, the feeling is a little different between these two statements. He also talked a little more saying that it was a touchpad problem and not a mouse problem, but that seems already known.

Anyway, the point remains that both players agree with the result, it was all a part of the rules, and there's nothing much to do about it except to accept the result here.

[Uberdude]

Interesting parallel from chess world. Magnus Carlsen misclicked and resigned immediately, he says to avoid putting opponent in difficult position of deciding should he offer draw out of sportsmanship.

https://chess24.com/en/read/news/skilli ... ng-carlsen

Magnus was still bewildered afterwards when Kaja Snare asked him what had happened with the mouse-slip.

The truth is I don’t really know. Usually I will know it’s one of two things. Either you just try to make the move and then you move it too far or not far enough, or the other one is that you think about making a move and then you drop the piece back on the wrong square, and frankly I don’t even remember which one it was, which is very strange. Regardless of what happens it was kind of sudden. I was choosing between many strong continuations there and all of a sudden I have to resign.

He didn't necessarily have to resign, but when Nepo hesitated Magnus stepped in to avoid any repeat of the kind of magnanimity he’d shown himself when Ding Liren lost on time against him in the Chessable Masters.

Maybe because he was in shock of what happened and I decided that one thing I don’t want to happen is him to think, 'should I offer a draw since he slipped in a winning position?' and so on, so I just resigned so he wouldn’t have to make any of those decisions.

Magnus feels mouse-slips are just part and parcel of the online game.

There are functions that you can choose like confirm move, that you have to confirm every move, but this can take away mouse-slips, but it slows the game down and takes away precious seconds. I think mouse-slips are part of the game, but obviously when it happens that’s really the worst way to lose the game!

[silviu22]

There is a very funny video with Ke Jie's reaction to the misclick from game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S750qPmp2UY

[Ferran]

My off-the-cuff idea would be to have a setting that allowed you to require TWO inputs to validate. Mouse *and* a key of choice. [CTRL] or [TAB] or... It would be almost as fast as the mouse itself, but it would avoid misclicks.

Take care

[EDIT: You would have to change the computer's settings, though. I just tried something similar while posting this and...]