GoQuest Go server

[OdinSonnah]

http://wars.fm/go13/game/p98edrc5eslu

Here is the game link, from the most recent time it's happened to me. I don't think there is any way for me to kill his last remaining group.

[Stoneman]

Looks like GoQuest now has an option to play 19x19 now. Doesn't seem to be fully operational yet though. Just started using the app today, I never realised how addictive 9x9 games are,although I can't help feeling that the 6 point Komi is a bit steep.

[OdinSonnah]

19x19 is only active when the number of users reaches 1000. I live in the US eastern time zone (UTC-5), and I find that it tends to be available in the mornings, ending somewhere around 11 AM. It does vary of course, since it's dependent on the combined schedules of the entire userbase.

[Solomon]

It's not the most visually pleasing server, but it definitely gets the job done. I just downloaded it this morning, and despite being at 25k currently, I already lost a game against a 4d! Pretty fun.

[OdinSonnah]

Yeah, because their pairing system is based on your ELO, not your rank, you sometimes run into very good players who still have double digit kyu rankings. What this usually means is that they are new to the server. The rankings are treated like achievements, so if you haven't played many games, it doesn't matter how good you are, your ranking can only improve so quickly.

On the other hand, sometimes the pairing system just doesn't work very well, and you can find yourself up against near impossible odds, or trouncing an opponent who can't really compete with you. Because the games are so short though, it's usually not long before you find yourself evenly matched again.

[bayu]

On the other hand, sometimes the pairing system just doesn't work very well, and you can find yourself up against near impossible odds, or trouncing an opponent who can't really compete with you. Because the games are so short though, it's usually not long before you find yourself evenly matched again.

It's quite rare to happen and if it does there are often only few people on the server, so might be the best pairing available without stretching waiting time. I like it when it happens. I don't mind getting schooled from time to time. Chances are that I played a pro for free. Usually the opponents are within 200 elo points which seems appropriate. The profiles show also the peak elo of a player which is often 100 points or more higher than their momentanous elo. It's blitz, so I expect a rather volatile rankings. Occasionaly you get paired against a new player, and their level can be anything between bloody beginner and bloody hell. That's for the server to find out the appropiate elo of the new player and affects your rank only minimally.

There is the option to hide the opponents rank/elo. I realised that I play differently depending on the assumed strength of my opponent, so I switched on this option. Now I like it that my opponent has to show me on the board how strong he is. I play a lot more reckless against somebody 500 elo higher. And when they're tired or careless, I unknowingly take my chances

[luigi]

Does anyone know the exact rules used in GoQuest? In particular, is superko used? If so, is it positional or situational?

[CDavis7M]

I saw this server mentioned elsewhere and since I've been playing a lot of 9x9 recently I checked it out. GoQuest is definitely quick to get a game going. The match making is an issue though. Often I'll be ranked against someone much weaker, even though they have a much higher elo rating (not kyu ranking), or against someone much stronger. This is less of an issue after about 60 games but it still happens frequently.

I tried a bit of 13x13 and it is also quick to get a game going but then I suffer from the same match-making issue all over again.

[kvasir]

It seems normal to me to be matched against player from a wide range of ratings when playing small boards on GoQuest. The stronger player has a lot less advantage in 9x9 and 13x13 than in 19x19. If you wish you can change your options to play handicap games, I disable that options because the handicap is quite steep on 13x13 (the only board size I play regularly on GoQuest) but I remember trying it and never feeling I had any idea why the handicap was what it was.

I don't know what the ko rule is, such things rarely matter in practice but it should be possible to create a test for different types of superko. I'd actually wouldn't be surprised if it was just the simple ko rule, no superko. There doesn't seem to be any superko in game edit, I tried repeating positions with two send-two's, which I think sensei's declare as forbidden even in Chinese rules. Also I don't remember if there is territory in seki.

I have definitely had some surprise results but I think that is just do to he automatic scoring declaring some status incorrectly. Occasional player will capture every dead stone to make sure but it is more common that they pass while filling dame.

[CDavis7M]

If you wish you can change your options to play handicap games, I disable that options because the handicap is quite steep on 13x13 (the only board size I play regularly on GoQuest) but I remember trying it and never feeling I had any idea why the handicap was what it was.

Thanks for the tip. I checked my settings and it turns out that handicaps are enabled but I have never seen it, with a lot of 9x9 (handicap is supposedly possible) and only twelve 13x13 games.

I have definitely had some surprise results but I think that is just do to he automatic scoring declaring some status incorrectly. Occasional player will capture every dead stone to make sure but it is more common that they pass while filling dame.

That's another good tip. The website says that they use Chinese scoring so I guess it makes sense to put the board in an easy to score state.

---------

Is GoQuest more mainstream than I previously thought? I hardly see it mentioned here or elsewhere, Maybe it is just not mentioned often because it's rankings and settings are so informal.

[kvasir]

Is GoQuest more mainstream than I previously thought? I hardly see it mentioned here or elsewhere, Maybe it is just not mentioned often because it's rankings and settings are so informal.

GoQuest is mainstream, I guess people find it in their app store but you can also play in the browser http://wars.fm/. There are often hundreds of people playing live games and almost exclusively 9x9 and 13x13. Not sure what there is to talk about. You can search people by username but there isn't any interaction except playing and the time controls are probably too fast for many beginner, but that and the informal rating/ranking system probable makes it attractive for people who are affright to embarrass themselves.

It is also great when you don't feel like you have time for longer games.

[CDavis7M]

Since I ranted I figure I owe an update. The Go Quest server slowly but surely got more and more consistent in match making. However, it took a bunch of games. I think it took about 80 games to reach my current "rank" (2k) and about 20 more games to settle the "elo" (the other number in the hundreds). If you are even stronger then I assume that it will take you even longer to get settled. If you are a beginner, it might not take too long to get settled.

By the way, I was under the impression that Go Quest ranks were completely trivial but that is not the case. I'm not sure if it was different before but there is actually a minimum elo requirement and a minimum number of win requirement to rank up. For example, I ranked up to 2k at 1500 but I will need to be 1600 to rank up again. Maybe the requirements were different in the past though, because there seem to be several players at my elo (and skill level) but who are ranked 2dan+, which seems unlikely.

[kvasir]

I think GoQuest uses the basic ELO ratings because the help file says that and the rating updates are consistent with that at first glance. ELO rating is like this:

new rating := old rating + K * ( outcome - expected outcome )
expected outcome := 1 / ( 1 + 10 ** ( rating difference / 400 ) )
rating difference := opponents rating - old rating

The variable K depends on rating in Chess ELO rating, it is 32 until 2000, then 24 and finally 16 for over 2400 rating.

Fairly simple, but GoQuest seeds new players in with a high rating (probably 1500 because this number is mentioned in the help file). They say in the help file that they want to motivate people by having the rating increase during the early games instead of dropping down from 1500. To this purpose the rating for the first 40 games is displayed as if it was increasing from a lower rating.

The rank is like you said based on reaching certain rating and having a winning streak so you can miss out on a promotion if your rating drops without achieving the winning streak but then it has been the case that the winning streak can start before you reach the rating. Usually when the rating increases it is due to a winning streak, I don't think requiring such winning streaks changes much but it must have been the intention that random fluctuation in rating would be less likely to result in promotion.

There are many players with high ranks that then fall back down. The requirements in 13x13 are like this, checking recent opponents:
8 dan: win 10 in a row, rating >= 2700
7 dan: win 8 in a row, rating >= 2350
6 dan: win 7 in a row, rating >= 2200
5 dan: win 6 in a row, rating >= 2100
4 dan: win 5 in a row, rating >= 2000
3 dan: (probably) win 4 or 5 in a row, rating >= 1900
2 dan: win 4 in a row, rating >= 1800

I played players 2-300 points below their rank requirement, usually people will reach a peak rank and then fall back a little bit. There are also sometimes players that are winning almost every game but their rank and rating is still very low.

[drmwc]

I play 9x9 on it a fair bit. I found I actually got to my rank and rating reasonably quickly (6 dan, although my rank is typically between 2100 and 2200.)

My main annoyance is that it sometimes doesn't recognise seki correctly. There are a few losses on my record that are actually wins.

[Schachus]

Really? i didnt have any problems with seki so far. Could you post an example that was recognized correctly?