jlt v. hailthorn

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:21 pm

My apologies for the lag today. I had to work. I'm actually going to be working the next five days in a row. I will still try my best to make a move every day. Once I've eaten dinner I'm going to work on making my move!

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:59 pm

skydyr wrote:
hailthorn011 wrote:
$$Bc Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Part of me feels like this is a misplay. But the alternatives don't seem particularly compelling. I considered attaching at C3 but decided that weakens my stones. Then I considered the tenuki but again I don't think my stones are strong enough to play away yet. This move serves to solidify my stones in the region while putting pressure on white's pincer stone.
This move feels problematic to me, particularly compared to the more usual one space jump to the right. When black jumped out, the implication is that black is letting white build something on the side in exchange for gathering strength to counter-pincer the side stone. This, however, strengthens the stone black could have attacked and so makes the black group less meaningful. Granted, with white's top left corner, black's potential from a counterpincer seems less, but if that wasn't black's aim at all, F5 was not the right move.

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:11 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 2 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

jlt · Post by **jlt** » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:18 pm

No problem, the deal was to play "at least one move on most days", so you don't have to play more than one if you lack time, and you can skip one day from time to time if you are really busy.

By the way I am in European time (CET/CEST), so if you make a move late in the evening, you won't see an answer before the next morning.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm14 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:45 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm14 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Duly noted! Thank you for your patience!

jlt · Post by **jlt** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:04 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm16 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:32 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm16 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

jlt · Post by **jlt** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:42 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . 1 . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

That was expected, he is pincering my two stones but thanks to H8 the pincer is not too severe, and for the moment

is also weak. I don't really have any severe attack on the group F5, so the only sensible thing to do is to attack

. There are essentially two ways of attacking.

The first one is to attack on the side and start a running battle. The direction of play may look like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . 2 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O a . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

While White may seem to be builing potential on the top, this doesn't look good at all, the group E8 is now severely pincered, the cut at "a" is exposed, and if E8 doesn't die it will need to struggle a lot to survive, so Black will make a lot of profit in the process.

The second way is to make a capping attack at one of the following places:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . a b . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . c . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

"b" doesn't seem good, I can't find a good response if Black plays "c" next.

Concerning "a", I am afraid of the following variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , 3 2 . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White seems at a disadvantage here, Black is too thick around and White has too many cutting points.

So remains move "c". Maybe Black will attach next, and then I'll probably hane:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . 1 . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't know if the sequence is good. In any case I won't absolutely try to save all stones, some of them will be sacrificed in the process. I'll try to build a strong group in order to control the center, which may help later if I need to invade the right side.

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:15 pm

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:55 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

jlt · Post by **jlt** » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:51 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm20 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Yes, although I didn't mention it in my previous post, I expected that move too. I didn't attack Black on the side, so it's natural for Black to make a base and approach the corner at the same time.

For White, tenuki is not an option. First because responding to a corner approach, although not always necessary, is always big. And second because Black is still weakish, and putting pressure on weak groups is generally urgent. OK, so now how to respond to Black's last move?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm20 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . i . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . h d O . c . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . e a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X f g . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . j . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

First, I discard moves like "f" or "g". Not only these moves don't enclose Black, but also White doesn't have any extension around K16, so not much potential on the top side.

What if I extend at "b" or "c"? Then I expect Black "h", White "i". Or maybe an AI joseki starting with Black "d" but I don't think he will play it since he says he has been on a long hiatus so may not have followed post-AI developments. Then the stone D11 is slightly misplaced and there is a weakness at "j", however if White tries to exploit it and makes a living group on the side, Black will be reinforced and this in turn will weaken the other white group F10.

So better protect the corner with one of the moves a, d or e. I don't think that "d" is good, the hoshi stone is a bit too lonely to play a move like that. I don't have a good feeling about "e", although I can't express why. So I'll go for the kick "a". I expect Black "f" next, so that Black is a bit overconcentrated because D11 is a bit too close. Then I'll extend to "b" or "c", I don't know which one yet. Whatever the continuation, this doesn't protect the upper left corner since Black can always invade at "i", but I think it's fine, I feel more satisfied with White's development than with other options.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:31 pm

dfan wrote:
As White, I would have taken away the base (probably with C13) without a second thought, for better or worse. It's one of those moves that seems so correct from a fundamentals viewpoint that I'd really need a serious concrete reason not to play it.

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:32 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm20 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

jlt · Post by **jlt** » Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:04 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Didn't expect this. I thought the game would continue as in the diagram below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm20 I expected this $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Then the stone D11 would not be ideally placed, but Black would be reasonably secure for now so maybe could tenuki and aim at a, b or c later. Normally

is necessary to prevent White from making a tiger's mouth, which is a good shape. Moves on the second line like Black did in the game are rarely good at this stage, when there are still bigger points to be played.

In light of this, I want to respond to the game move with a tiger's mouth:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm20 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . b . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

If Black extends with "a" then I can block the corner with "b", and Black's shape looks cramped, while White develops nicely.

On the other hand, Black may want to take the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm20 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 0 4 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 2 O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

White gave up some points in the corner, but in exchange got a nice influence, the stone D11 is a bit lonely, and White's group F10 is strengthened. The corner was never White's anyway, Black always had the option to invade at the 3-3 point.

Instead of the tiger's mouth

, I could consider to block the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm20 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 . O . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Then I think that Black needs to play at

anyway, otherwise Black's shape would be horrible if White plays there next. Then this looks like the normal joseki with an additional bad exchange

-

for Black.

I don't know which move is best between D14 and B16. I don't think any of the two options is bad. Need to take a decision. I could toss a coin, or play nigiri against myself. Or just say that it's a matter of style, and that I like influence and strong groups, so let's take D14 and see how the game develops.

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:31 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Re: jlt v. hailthorn