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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #81 Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:10 pm 
Gosei
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Further Katago variations on my third hidden diagram.

Suppose that Black plays :b5: at B17, then Katago thinks the only move for :w6: is B16.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7 :w14: at a or b
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . b . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , 6 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Instead of peeping, Black may want to continue jumping.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7 Running fight
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . 4 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a X . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


In the above diagram, White may want to connect underneath at "a" for :w8:, this is slightly less good.

In any case, Black cannot push and cut

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7 bad for Black
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O 4 5 7 9 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a X . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


White can save the 5 stones with "a" at any time.


Edit: last diagram corrected.


Last edited by jlt on Fri May 14, 2021 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #82 Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 2:53 pm 
Gosei
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Really a shape problem.

Position #49, White to play. What is White's next move, and what is the continuation?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X X . X . O X O . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . O . X . X O O O |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . O . O X . X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Answer:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Katago's answer
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X X . X . O X O . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . O . X . X O O O |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . O . O X . X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . b X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White cannot kill the three stones, at least not immediately. :w3: strengthens the three white stones so that White can aim at attacking one of the black groups later. For instance if Black doesn't defend the group on the right, then "a" will be a good point for White. If Black doesn't defend the two stones then "b" will be a good point for White.

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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #83 Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 6:48 am 
Honinbo

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Edit: Nevermind. :D

I assume that the following is the correct diagram for the last one in #81..

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7 bad for Black
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O 4 5 7 9 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a X . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


White can save the 5 stones with "a" at any time.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Fri May 14, 2021 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #84 Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 7:33 am 
Gosei
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Yes indeed, there were two :w12: in the diagram, I forgot to erase one. I edited my post according to your comment.


This post by jlt was liked by: Bill Spight
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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #85 Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:40 am 
Gosei
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Position #50, White to play. Shouldn't be hard but I missed it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X X X X X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O X X O O O . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O . . O O , . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . X X . X O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O O . O . . O X O X . X O X X . . |
$$ | . X X . . . O O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O X X X . . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X . X . O O . . X X . . . |
$$ | . O . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Answer:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Answer
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X X X X X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O X X O O O . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O . . O O , . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . X X . X O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O O . O . . O X O X . X O X X . . |
$$ | . X X . . . O O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O X X X . . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X . X . O O . . X X . . . |
$$ | . O . O O O X . 2 1 . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #86 Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:56 pm 
Gosei
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Yet another simple move.

Position #51, White to play. There are several possible good moves, the question is how to attack/put pressure on the group K16.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . O |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . X . . . O . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Answer:

In fact, many good moves are available on the board:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Possible moves
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . b a . . X . . . . . . O |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . X . . . O . O O O X |
$$ | . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . e . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | O . O f . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I am mostly interested in move "a" which attacks Black's shape. Katago expects Black to just answer and then White takes a big point elsewhere.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc continuation of move a
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 2 . X . . . . . . O |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . X . . . O . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . 3 . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


For move :w3:, White shouldn't make a move around N17: the upper right corner doesn't need to be protected since it is completely alive (for instance, a black move at O18 wouldn't be sente), and since Black has strenghthened his group with :b2:, a white move around N17 won't put a lot of pressure so Black won't respond.

Black can't play :b2: at O18, otherwise we get the following sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc continuation of move a (2)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 7 8 6 2 . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . 9 X 3 5 . . . . O |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . X 0 b 4 O . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


and then White a, Black b, White c follow.

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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #87 Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:59 am 
Gosei
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Position #52, from an OGS 1k vs. 2k game. Black to play an endgame move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X . O . O . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . X . . , . X O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X O . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X O . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O . O X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X . O X . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . X . O X X . O . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X O . X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . X X O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . X X O O . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X O , O O O O X O X X . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O X X X X X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Katago's answer:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X . O . O . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . X . . , . X O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X O . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X O . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O . O X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X . O X . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . O . . . . a . 1 . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . X . O X X . O . 2 O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X O . X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . X X O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . X X O O . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X O , O O O O X O X X . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O X X X X X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White is not alive yet so :b1: is sente. After :w2:, Black aims at a.

If Black doesn't play at :b1: then a sequence like this can happen:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 O X . . . . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X . O . O . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . X . . , . X O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X O . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X O . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O . O X . X . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X . O X . . X . 4 X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . X . O X X . O . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X O . X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . X X O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . X X O O . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X O , O O O O X O X X . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O X X X X X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #88 Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:52 am 
Gosei
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Position #53, White to play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Two moves are possible:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The cut isn't a problem:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Very good for White
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 6 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 2 O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So Black would rather play from the other group:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However if Black decides to jump then White can protect the cut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #89 Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:26 am 
Gosei
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Position #54, Black to play. Several good moves are possible, find a good move in the bottom part of the board.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . O X . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . O X O O . X X , O O . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O X . O . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . b O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . a . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . c X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . O X . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . O B O O . X X , O O . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . O B . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O B . O . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black needs to find a good way to use the dead marked stones. In the game I played "b", which loses 2.5 points according to Katago. The move "a" is better since it expands further towards the center. The move "b" is about as good as "a".

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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #90 Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:55 am 
Gosei
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Position #55:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O X X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O O O . . , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X O O . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O O O O O O X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X X O O X X O X |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . O O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . O O . O . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . X X . , O X X O X , . . . |
$$ | X . X O . O . . X . O X O O O X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . O X X O O O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #91 Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:37 am 
Lives in gote

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Rank: panda 4 dan
IGS: kvasir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O X X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O O O . . , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X O O . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O O . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O O O O O O X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X X O O X X O X |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . O O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . 3 . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . O O . O . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . X X 2 , O X X O X , . . . |
$$ | X . X O . O . 1 X . O X O O O X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . O X X O O O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I am not confident about going directly to 3 but black is unlikely to play 2 :roll:


This post by kvasir was liked by: jlt
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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #92 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:46 am 
Gosei
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Position #56: how to respond to the crosscut?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . W X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O O . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Answer

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc answer
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . X . . X . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O 1 . O . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 4 6 . . O . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 5 . O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O O . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #93 Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:37 am 
Gosei
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Position #57, another shape move, from a Fox 2d game. White to play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . . . X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . X . . O . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , O . . . O , X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . X . . . . . . . O O . O |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . O . . O O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . O X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X X . X O . . X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . X O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . X O . O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O X O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O X X O . . O O O O O |
$$ | . . X O O . . . O X . O . X . X O X X |
$$ | . . X X O . . . O X . . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Answer:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc The marked stones are captured
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . 1 3 B B O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . X 2 . O . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , O . . . O , X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . X . . . . . . . O O . O |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . O . . O O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . O X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X X . X O . . X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . X O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . X O . O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O X O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O X X O . . O O O O O |
$$ | . . X O O . . . O X . O . X . X O X X |
$$ | . . X X O . . . O X . . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black can't save the two stones, the following diagram is horrible for Black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc horrible for Black
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . 1 2 X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . X 3 4 O . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . 5 6 O . . . O , X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . X 7 . . . . . . O O . O |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . O . . O O X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . O X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X X . X O . . X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . X O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . X O . O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O X O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O X X O . . O O O O O |
$$ | . . X O O . . . O X . O . X . X O X X |
$$ | . . X X O . . . O X . . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Position #58: White to play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . O . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O O O O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O O X X O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Last edited by jlt on Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #94 Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:32 am 
Dies in gote
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Universal go server handle: Farodin
I counted black to be slightly ahead in this position, so white has to do something active.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black resists
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 5 3 4 . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . 1 2 6 O . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 7 X , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O O O O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O O X X O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think white should jump in at :w1:, breaking the large knight's move. If black resists with :b2: and so on, black suddenly finds himself with 3 weak groups on the board (top left, top center, right side), while white on the top right looks stable enough to not be a big burden in the upcoming fight.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black has to pull back
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . 1 3 . O . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 4 2 X , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O O O O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O O X X O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I think black can't resist, and has to pull back at :b2: to connect his stones. White does likewise with :w3:. After this, I think white can even afford to play at :w5: immediately, since the black group is now unsettled. After this sequence the territory balance swings back into white's favour.


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 Post subject: Re: Shapes to remember (SDK level)
Post #95 Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:03 pm 
Gosei
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Farodin found the blue move.

Position #59, White to play. From a game I played in my club. How to respond to the last move?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . . . O . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Answer:

Do not connect passively at Q15!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Answer
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . 2 . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . . . O . O X X X 1 . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . O X O O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Later if Black wants to pull out the peeping stone, the local continuation looks like this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Continuation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . 6 . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . . . . . O X . a . X 5 |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . . . O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 7 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Black will probably need to add a move at "a" later.

If instead of :b4: Black lives in the corner immediately, a local continuation like this may be played.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . . . . . O X . . . X 4 |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . . . O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


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Post #96 Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:04 am 
Gosei
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Position #60, Black to play. A rather basic shape, how could I miss it?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O O X X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . X . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O . X . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #97 Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:47 am 
Lives in gote

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J6 prevents the double peep and helps H7 while damaging J5. W does have aji to cut through imminently with K5 L6 L4, but if required, B even has M7 in half sente (damaging the right), but allowing a locally efficient connection with M5 bamboo.

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Post #98 Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:09 am 
Gosei
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Read the same as dhu and now wondering about this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O O X X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . X . X . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O X 2 O . 7 O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . O O X 5 6 8 O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O . X 1 O 9 O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4 O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
but indeed, Hu's suggestion may be best
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O O X X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . X W X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . X W a . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X 3 O . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . 1 . . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O 2 X b O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O . X . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Allowing the capture at A is probably too much to bear


An amusing after thought with KataGo:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O O X X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . X W X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 6 X W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 X 4 X . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . 2 5 . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . X . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O . X . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Where to play now as Black? I don't know if the tesuji has a name :)

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Post #99 Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:59 am 
Gosei
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Thanks for your remarks, you indeed found the same first move as Katago:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . W W X X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . W . X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X W . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a X . X . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . 3 . 1 . . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . 2 O . X . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . . O . B . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


(If :w2: is at a then :b3: is at :w2: making miai of capturing one stone or another.)

Katago doesn't seem to care much about the marked black stone. I don't understand its variations as they are rather complicated but it seems it wants to make a strong central group in order to attack either marked white group. Here is for instance a simple variation which is considered as good for Black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O O X X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . 1 3 . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 9 O 2 X 7 O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . 6 4 5 . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O . X 8 O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


however H5 seems to be a vital point that Katago wants to play at almost every move.

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Post #100 Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:09 am 
Gosei
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P.S. For your last question, I thought about this tesuji but I am not sure it works.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . 7 O O X X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . X W X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 6 X W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 X 4 X . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . 2 5 . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . X . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O . X . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


https://senseis.xmp.net/?AngleWedge


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