Japanese Title and League scene

[CDavis7M]

When he heard he was getting a gift from Meiji, he was probably hoping for this classic treat:

[CDavis7M]

The 77th Honinbo is in the final rounds to decide the Challenger. Yesterday I saw Tsuruyama Atsushi 8 dan playing Shibano Toramaru. Tsuruyama is one of the guys that writes the 4-character idiom column. I had never seen him play before so this was neat. It's pretty rare to get records for these games, let alone a live stream. Both of these players were 1-1 before the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFAwlKoXaX0

[Ferran]

Hope he prefers black.

Anything else might be chocolate-flavoured, but not chocolate.

Take care

[gazzawhite]

The last six title matches have all been lost by either Shibano Toramaru or Ryo Ichiriki:
April - Shibano loses Judan
July - Shibano loses Honinbo
August - Ryo loses Gosei
November - Ryo loses Meijin
December - Ryo loses Tengen
December - Shibano loses Oza

Ryo has the opportunity to extend the streak to seven matches when he challenges Yuta Iyama for the Kisei title early next year.

[CDavis7M]

The 77th Honinbo League is about half over. Shibano Toramaru (2-1) is currently playing Hane Naoki (2-1). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR2xWREyrek. It's nice that they stream some of these non-Title matches.

Also, Yo Seiki is 3-0. He beat Kyo Kagen, Hane, and Ichiriki Ryo, He plays Sada Atsushi (1-2) on Jan. 10. Ichiriki is 2-1. He's playing Motoki Katsuya soon. I'm not familiar with Motoki but he is also in the Meijin League. It'll be a few month months until the Title Challenge I think.

[bugcat]

Here, take this: https://senseis.xmp.net/?MotokiKatsuya

[pajaro]

Yo Seiki is 3-0.

He is already 4-0. He has to play Motoki Katsuya (0-4) and Tsuruyama Atsuhi (1-3). Looks like a real candidate to challenge Iyama.
He is also the challenger of the Judan, and alive in the Oza and Gosei.

This can be his year.

[CDavis7M]

The 5th game of 7 in the 46th Kisei title match is starting soon. Ichiriki Ryo has 3 wins while Kisei Iyama Yuta has 1. I'm sure Ichiriki would like get back on the list of title holders.

I was reading a bit about the players from the sponsor Yomiuri Shimbun and they presented this list of their prior title matches. Of their 8 matches, Ichiriki has only won the 46th Tengen. But, Ichiriki has been doing well against Iyama lately, especially compared to his early matches against Iyama. I hope Ichiriki keeps getting stronger.

42nd Tengen (Bo5): Iyama Tengen 3 - 1 Ichiriki
65th Oza (Bo5): Iyama Oza 3 - 0 Ichiriki
43rd Tengen (Bo5): Iyama Tengen 3 - 0 Ichiriki
42nd Kisei (Bo7): Iyama Kisei 4 - 0 Ichiriki
66th Oza (Bo5): Iyama Oza 3 - 2 Ichiriki
46th Tengen (Bo5): Ichiriki Gosei 3 - 2 Iyama Tengen
46th Gosei (Bo5): Iyama Kisei 3 - 2 Ichiriki Gosei
46th Meijin (Bo7): Iyama Meijin 4 - 3 Ichiriki Tengen

[gazzawhite]

The last six title matches have all been lost by either Shibano Toramaru or Ryo Ichiriki:
April - Shibano loses Judan
July - Shibano loses Honinbo
August - Ryo loses Gosei
November - Ryo loses Meijin
December - Ryo loses Tengen
December - Shibano loses Oza

Ryo has the opportunity to extend the streak to seven matches when he challenges Yuta Iyama for the Kisei title early next year.

Ryo beat Iyama 4-3 to win the Kisei title, thus ending the streak.

[CDavis7M]

I just saw this bold tweet from Asahi Shimbun Igo (sponsor of Meijin) about Ichiriki taking the Kisei and Iyama losing his hold on the "Big Three" (Kisei, Honinbo, and Meijin). The tweet ends with 碁界は「井山１強」から新たな時代を迎えました。Something like, "The Go world has entered a new era after Iyama dominance."

What do you all think about that? I mean, the title match records don't lie -- Ichiriki has been improving against Iyama over time. But the tweet seems sensationalist. Looking at the chart of Title Holders posted above, Iyama has already lost the Meijin twice only to come back and reclaim the Big Three. It could be done again. And Iyama still has 4 titles now... But, Iyama did get knocked out of the Judan league early. It's Yo Seiki challenging Kyo Kagen. And looking at the next title match, the Honinbo, Yo Seiki is leading the league with 6-0 against Ichiriki's 4-1 record. I would reserve any bold claims against Iyama until after the Honinbo is decided. And what if Yo Seiki wins both? Does that signal a possible new era of Kansai dominance?

[pajaro]

I agree. Still a bit too early to call it "a new era".

Sure, the Kisei is the #1 title in Japan, but after all, it's 7 games, like the Meijin or the Honinbo, and Iyama still has both of them. The Honinbo, for 10 years, but the Meijin, lost and conquered back.

Ichiriki has been improving against Iyama, but Iyama is strong against everybody. Ichiriki has very good records, yes, but I don't think he's still so solid against everybody.

Let's wait until the Honinbo against Yo Seiki (most likely) and the Meijin, against a not so clear candidate.

[Schachus]

Really, Kisei is the #1 title? I always thought it was the honinbo.

[Ferran]

The Kisei is the first by prize money, not by history.

Take care.

[pajaro]

I have always heard that the Kisei holder is considered the #1 player in Japan.

But it doesn't really matter in this discussion. To say "an era has changed" because one guy with five titles has lost one, is too early.

[Elom0]

Well, the Honinbo is the oldest, but the Kisei has the most prize money, and I think the Meijin is the second oldest and the second highest in prize money, so I guess the claim could be made that any one of the three is actually the most prestigious. I guess it's a turning point in Japanese Go because it's not simply one of the other strong pros. Ichiriki Ryo has been the de facto strongest in Japan now for a while, so it signifies something that already exists.