Amazon army

[CDavis7M]

Not exactly "Amazon army" but the Japan Pair Go Association final match is coming up in 32 hours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjp5iZxuasE

Nyu Eiko is in it. I follow her a bit and so this is exciting. She got into a tournament league recently... Oh! bummer. It was the Oza and she lost her game a few weeks ago. I missed that one.

Against Nyu is Chinen Kaori, who I don't hear much about lately but she had some Women's titles back when.

Nyu is paired with Iyama and Chinen is paired with Ichiriki. Let's see how the pairs switch it up.

[gazzawhite]

Nyu Eiko is in it. I follow her a bit and so this is exciting. She got into a tournament league recently... Oh! bummer. It was the Oza and she lost her game a few weeks ago. I missed that one.

It was the Gosei. No woman has qualified for the Oza main tournament yet.

[John Fairbairn]

The latest Go Weekly features a long round-table discussion by three female stars of the Japanese go scene.

Historically, such round-table discussions, usually reported verbatim, as here, have tended to signal intense activity behind the scenes. That's just the way the Japanese do business. Before they make a major initiative, they like to sound out opinions - in the case of go, of both players and fans. There's no guarantee of any action, of course, and the way the women's go world is developing at present could be said to argue for a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach. Still, given the financial pressures elsewhere, I'd be rather surprised if the executives are not planning some new way of capitalising on the success of the distaff side.

The three participants spanned three generations: Koyama Terumi (52), Kobayashi Izumi (44) and Hoshiai Shiho (24).

All three expressed surprise as well as pleasure at the way women have made their presence felt recently. Of course, they cited the headline events such as Fujisawa Rina winning the Young Carp in 2020 and Ueno Asami challenging Ichiriki Ryo for the Ryusei in 2019. Koyama said her family of three (all pro go players) were transfixed at home watching the latter game. She didn't mention it, but that game featured a double-headed dragon fight. Rather in the way that unicorns were supposed to herald the appearance of great sages like Confucius, maybe DHDs will herald the appearance of great female champions! But the panel was also careful to stress the simpler but wider impact of female names appearing more and more in the higher echelons of the preliminaries tables.

Asked what the underlying reasons for the advance in women's go were, the panel identified three broad factors. Hoshiai (laughing) said first that AI had had an impact because it changed the view of senior players as gods, with everyone below them meekly believing the gods knew everything. It was very frustrating that she didn't elaborate on that, but even so, just saying it is quite significant in Japanese terms. The other two ladies didn't comment on that, but my guess is that it's simply because they are pre-AI players, rather than from a sense of caution.

The older panellists were rather more voluble on the second factor: the increasingly younger age of strong players, which they said is more significant for females. Kobayashi pointed out that she was 17 when she turned pro and had her first child when she was 28. That gave her a career of just 11 years. She contrasted Rina, who turned pro at 12. If she followed the same path to domesticity in her late 20s, she would have a career and learning span 50% longer. Sumire would be closer to double.

As to why kids were learning younger, they all cited opportunities. Kobayashi said that when she learned go, 8 or 9 out of 10 girls said they learned from their parents. But the hikago (Hikaru no Go) age changed that. Classes sprang up everywhere, at both ends of the spectrum. More children played at home but this was backed up by more local community classes. At the other end were elite schools like the Ryokusei Academy and the school of Hong Malk-eun Saem. Hoshiai said she was a hikago child and went to the latter two schools, but was also able to go to the Shinjuku Children's Go Classes. In addition, there were many Go Festivals that attracted children. These, in particular, have been badly hit by the corona pandemic, she said, so there is some trepidation as to the ultimate effect.

Under the same heading of opportunity, they all approved of the go world's policy of allowing females to join in events with men. The shogi world has experimented with mean and women operating on parallel tracks. The go model was considered a big advantage.

They pointed out that the rest of the go world is likewise getting stronger at a younger age, of course (but not in the west, I ask?).

One thing they did not address, except in Kobayashi's remark about learning from parents or relatives being the usual path in the past, is Family. She is part of four generations of pro go players (and one of the latest, Cho Kosumi, seems to have spawned a name for a new shape: the Kosumi kosumi!). Koyama is not too different. She belongs to three generations of pros (her son Koyama Kuya is a recent pro, her husband is a pro, and grandfather was a pro). But that's not just the past. Sumire has two parents and an aunt who enjoy go as a profession. Rina also has four generation of pro go (plus an offshoot in Fujisawa Hosai). Ueno Asami may not have the lineage but she shares a gene pool with pro sister Risa (and let's not forget the three Mukai sisters).

Clearly, AI, an earlier start and more opportunities will all feature in the development of future female stars. But will family genetics also play a part for those who get to the very top?

[CDavis7M]

Nyu Eiko is in it. I follow her a bit and so this is exciting. She got into a tournament league recently... Oh! bummer. It was the Oza and she lost her game a few weeks ago. I missed that one.

It was the Gosei. No woman has qualified for the Oza main tournament yet.

You're right, it was the Gosei! Thank you. She was also making her way through the Oza qualifiers but not the challenger league.

[pajaro]

The latest Go Weekly features a long round-table discussion by three female stars of the Japanese go scene.

I found this reading quite appealing to me (your post, not the original article).

I found several topics that I have commented here, such as top pros being gods before AI, and humans now; how family is a factor for girls to play go; or how the progress of female pros is not only measured by how a few of them play bigger games, but by how more and more advance in early rounds of the prelims. This may sound egocentric, but I like to see that my point of view is not far from reality.

The generational gap is obvious in their comments. And Kobayashi's opinion is specially valuable.

[pajaro]

I just read this, about the Senko Cup (international tournament):

https://twitter.com/KK_joryu/status/1493844476229750787

Using google translator, I understand that the top 4 female players in Japan are playing. No surprise here. But then, I "read" that Sumire is going to take another spot, by invitation of the sponsor. Also, because she made the top 8 last year. I am a bit confused here. Is it possible that the Japanese version of the tournament is the Saikyo, and the players with good results go to the international one?

Anyway, it will be a good chance to see how Japanese players do against other countries. It's a pity that there is only one representative from each country, but well...

And last thing: "top 4 female players", "no surprise"... I think that in the near future the top 4 is going to change.

[bugcat]

Am I right in thinking that the top four are Rina, Asami, Xie Yimin and Suzuki Ayumi, and that you're speculating that one of the latter two will be replaced by Nyu Eiko?

[pajaro]

You are right with the 4 and the 1.

Add Hoshiai Shiho and some time, and the landscape will be quite different.

The Meijin league is getting interesting.

[pajaro]

I must have missed some recent results, but at least...

Asami beat Omori Ran and Mukai Chiaki in the female Meijin league. Demotion is close for Omori (0-3).

And the other Ueno, Risa, is doing pretty well. She beat Xie Yimin in the prelims of the Aidu Cup, and Mukai Chiaki in the prelim of the female Honinbo. Risa has qualified for the main event. She was there last year too, but now she qualified beating stronger opponents. Good work. I wonder how far is she from promotion.

[pajaro]

Two more games in the Meijin league.

Nyu Eiko beat Ueno Asami. A bit of a surprise, but not so much. Nyu is getting good results and making herself heard. She is 3-1 now, and Asami is 2-1. Remember that there is a free player in each round. And more interesting: they play again next March 3rd, in the Kisei.

In the second game of the Meijin, Omori Ran lost to Mukai Chiaki. Sadly for Omori, she is 0-4 and has lost all chances to avoid demotion. Mukai is 2-2, and the fight for survival will be tough.

Ayami Suzuki is 1-2, Xie Yimin is 2-1 and Nakamura Sumire is also 2-1. Seeing that some players have played 3 games, others have played 4, I'd say that the final result is not clear at all.

[pajaro]

And more interesting: they play again next March 3rd, in the Kisei.

The game was played. I know that Asami won, and that's all. I haven't seen the record yet.

Misc info: in the NK website, in female only tournaments, Ueno is "female Honinbo". But in the mixed tournaments, she is "4 dan".

[gazzawhite]

Misc info: in the NK website, in female only tournaments, Ueno is "female Honinbo". But in the mixed tournaments, she is "4 dan".

Isn't Rina Fujisawa the female Honinbo?

[pajaro]

Misc info: in the NK website, in female only tournaments, Ueno is "female Honinbo". But in the mixed tournaments, she is "4 dan".

Isn't Rina Fujisawa the female Honinbo?

My mistake.

Ueno Asami is female Kisei.

[CDavis7M]

The league for the Hakata Kamachi Cup is still going, for 2 more rounds after this week. It was nice that the Nihon Kiin broadcast the match between Nyu Eiko and Xie (Hsieh) Yimin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-mpSFS7RmM. Nyu has been doing well here and even in the big tournaments. Though Xie won this game. Nyu has won 3 of 5. Xie won 3 of her 4 games (she had a bye earlier, Nyu has a bye later).

The YouTube commentator was Tajiri Yuto 5 dan. I don't think I've seen him before but it's nice that they provided commentary on these League matches also. Ueno is playing Nakamura on Thursday. Hopefully we get more games streamed this week, though I don't see any scheduled yet.

[pajaro]

The 6th (last?) game of the Kisei is next 10-11th. All attention goes to it.

With Xie's win, the league gets close. Both Asami and Sumire are 2-1, so one of them will have 3 wins after Thursday, like Nyu and Xie. The other one, with 2 loses, will have to be careful.
Mukai (2-2) and Suzuki (1-2) play next Thursday too, and the loser will be in serious trouble.