Japanese Title and League scene

[CDavis7M]

There will be a video stream to cover Shibano vs Iyama in the 3rd round of the Kisei tournament S-league: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujdEb-HTmgg

This will be a preview since Shibano will challenge Iyama Meijin starting in a few weeks.

S-League:
Iyama 1-1 (last to play in Round 3)
Yo Seiki 1-2
Murakawa Daisuke 1-2
Takao Shinji 1-2 (beat Iyama)
Shibano Toramaru 2-0
Kyo Kagen 2-1 (lost to Murakawa)

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Off topic but I can recognize all of these names in kanji now. So does that mean that Murakawa is doing well enough that even I recognize his name? Let's see, his Kansai profile isn't as helpful in discovering his record. Looking through the list of tournaments again I must have seen his Tengen main tournament and Agon Kirayama Cup results. He beat Shibano then lost to Ichiriki in the quarter final (3rd round) of the Tengen. He lost to Seki Koutarou in the Agon Cup (who will play Iyama). Some of the Agon main tournament games are being broadcast online.

I read a bit more about Murakawa and he was one of the youngest pros, had a great record, and won the Agon, Oza, and Judan titles. I wasn't paying attention back then but I wonder if he was considered a prodigy. Apparently not enough of a prodigy because he didn't make the list of prodigies in the Ogawa Doteki book...

On the Tengen, Ida Atsushi took out Iyama and will be playing Ichiriki in the final this week to see who will challenge Seki Koutarou (who took the title from Ichiriki). It would be interesting if Ida wins. He is another player that was doing well a few years ago, plays in the main tournaments, but hasn't challenged a title recently.

[John Fairbairn]

I wonder if he was considered a prodigy. Apparently not enough of a prodigy because he didn't make the list of prodigies in the Ogawa Doteki book...

Murakawa is most certainly in the prodigy class. At age 10 years 10 months, he became the youngest ever pro at the Kansai Ki-in (overtaking Yuki Satoshi) and then second youngest in Japan behind Cho Chikun. Sumire later overtook him, of course. Murakawa didn't get the same coverage because he was in the KK, not the NK.

[Ida] is another player that was doing well a few years ago, plays in the main tournaments, but hasn't challenged a title recently.

He got married in 2019 (to Mannami Nao), and marriage is notorious for putting a dent in go players' careers. But he was promoted to 9-dan last week. A year younger than Murakawa, I think, without checking.

[pajaro]

On the Tengen, Ida Atsushi took out Iyama and will be playing Ichiriki in the final this week to see who will challenge Seki Koutarou (who took the title from Ichiriki). It would be interesting if Ida wins. He is another player that was doing well a few years ago, plays in the main tournaments, but hasn't challenged a title recently.

They just played.

Ida won, so he will challenge Seki Kotaro for the title. He is also the player who beat Iyama, so he really deserves this. He has challenges for titles before, but not for some time. Even so, it's good to see different names in the title matches.

Ichiriki, on the other hand, seems to be lacking something in the important moments. His next big event will be his first Kisei defense. A lot of time to train/relax/study/whatever he needs.

[CDavis7M]

Murakawa is most certainly in the prodigy class. At age 10 years 10 months, he became the youngest ever pro at the Kansai Ki-in (overtaking Yuki Satoshi) and then second youngest in Japan behind Cho Chikun... Murakawa didn't get the same coverage because he was in the KK, not the NK.

I've been trying to learn more about the Kansai Ki-in. I wonder how players choose. Maybe their "true sons of Kansai" (if that's even a thing), family there for generations, maybe have a grudge against Tokyo (if that's even a thing? I'm trying to find out). While maybe some other player is just living there because their parents are working there and they don't have deep roots.

I believe Iyama was in the Kansai region but went with the Nihon Ki-in's Kansai branch instead. Maybe he (his parents) didn't have Kansai roots? Or maybe they knew he would have better prospects in the larger Nihon Ki-in? For me as a spectator, I'd like to believe that they are separate "teams" and I think it would be fun to have Kansai players doing well in the tournaments. I'm happy that Yo Seiki did well in the Judan but the title challenge was a bit disappointing. It would be exciting if Murakawa did well.

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Ida won, so he will challenge Seki Kotaro for the title... it's good to see different names in the title matches.

That's great news. I just went back and skimmed the game. I'm very excited to see more players competing for titles. Ida does well in the tournaments and he has been in at least one video stream recently. Checking his SL page, he challenge Iyama for 69th Honinbo in 2014 and he won the 53rd (53th according to SL ) Judan against Takao Shinji but lost it to Iyama.

And now Shibano is in a good position to possibly challenge Ichiriki Kisei. I'm excited for that tournament.

[gowan]

Of course the KK was born out of a branch of the NK, established in Osaka by the NK at the time of the 2nd world war. The great player Hashimoto Utaro was the founder and the KK became "officially" independent of the NK when Hashimoto, holder of the Honinbo title, was involved in some kind of dispute with the NK. As a result the KK was created. I would guess that talented young players in the Osaka area could join which ever they qualify for. It seems to me that there are stronger players in the NK than in the KK. Other factors might be which organization a player's teacher belongs to.

[CDavis7M]

It looks like Shibano is back in top form. He dominated Kisei S-league and is in the Oza final round.

Shibano has a last Kisei league game against Yo Seiki and he will also play Yo in the Oza final round. Hard to decide but I will cheer for Shibano over Yo. I want to see Shibano's come back.


By the way, I saw a tweet from Nikkei linking their website on the history of the Oza tournament. Lots of pictures and it seems like a good read. I'll check it out later. https://www.nikkei.com/telling/DGXZTS00 ... 2A7000000/

This picture of Fujisawa and Kobayashi looks like it could have been taken 50 years earlier than it was: https://article-image-ix.nikkei.com/htt ... 504641a060

I guess this is post game, but here is Sakata just smoking at the board. It was just a thing back then (there's another picture of a cigarette at the board): https://article-image-ix.nikkei.com/htt ... 65f1783873

[bugcat]

John, you say that Murakawa Daisuke qualified at 10 years 10 months.

But both Sensei's Library and this page https://homepages.cwi.nl/~aeb/go/misc/progression.html say that he was born on 1990-12-14 and qualified on 2002-11-01. That's 11 years 10 months.

[John Fairbairn]

That's my typo - or maybe I was too lazy to take my socks off. Should be 11.

[CDavis7M]

Edit: Link to game video stream: https://youtu.be/DQjwDK_zh9Y

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Shibano's back! Before the Meijin starts they had kenbun no yosu -- "inspection of the state of affairs." Inspecting the play area. I've seen videos for shogi but can't find one for Go. I imagine they check the fluffiness of the pillows, play with the thermostat, tap the stones, kick the tires--that sort of thing. Fujisawa Rina is attending and posted this picture. She's doing the Big Board. Cho Chikun is the ref. I see the 2 record keepers plus 2 more. Seki Koutaro is doing the net commentary but I don't see him. Maybe chatting with Rina.

This is the 47th Meijin and Shibano was the 44th, losing to Iyama in the 45th. Anyone have any predictions?

I won't predict but just share my hopes. I'm very excited to see Shibano back and I am cheering for him in this first match. I hope he starts strong. Though I do like to see Iyama still dominating even as he gets further into his 30s. Yet I would like to see Shibano's face in the list of title holders. But most of all I am just hoping that we get more than 4 games. 6 or 7 games is my real hope!

Above anything else, I can already be happy just because there is someone playing Iyama besides Ichiriki.

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It looks like the game will be steamed on the Igo Shogi channel, though there is no direct link at the moment (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-vtEQ ... exw/videos)

The players gave an interview as well: https://youtu.be/LJ8KsTF0o4U?t=741

Cho Chikun gives a hilarious speech (apparently, I don't understand it) as Kono Rin stands by. No wonder they always invite Cho to these games. Japanese Go is lucky to have a champion that is endearing and fun.

Cho.PNG (728.85 KiB) Viewed 9556 times

[John Fairbairn]

Cho Chikun gives a hilarious speech

Given the advert for Meiji chocolate behind him, you have to wonder if Cho has been over-guzzling and is in the throes of a sugar rush. Either that or he's auditioning for a part in the next Harry Potter movie. Rin is clearly wondering who the hell let Cho in the room.

Still my favourite story about inspecting the playing conditions is from shogi, when Oyama Meijin was playing a title match somewhere down in the far south. He didn't like the board for the next day, so told the organisers to change it. They had to get a new one from Tokyo via the overnight mail train, no doubt praying he would found that one acceptable.

[pajaro]

Cho Chikun gives a hilarious speech

Rin is clearly wondering who the hell let Cho in the room.

Who the hell could prevent Cho from doing whatever he wanted?

About the match: as long as it goes to 7 games, any result is fine with me.

[CDavis7M]

I've still only watched Day 1 of Shibano and Iyama. But I did just watch the final game of the Oza tournament between Shibano and Yo Seiki. Yo won and will be the Challenger. https://youtu.be/Sa6Fj6AvfQM

Very happy to have variety

[pajaro]

Very happy to have variety

Yes, great for fans.

Yo lost to Iyama in the Kisei (only win for Iyama in the league so far). I see that they already met in the #64 Oza. I hope he can put up a more decent fight this time.

[John Fairbairn]

This morning I was musing on the fact on the fact that I, and others as evidenced by this thread, like to keep an eye mostly on the Japanese go scene. But is it like preferring a glass of lager to a glass of champagne?

Iyama is being feted in Japan a lot at the moment because of his 11 consecutive Honinbo titles, which now requires to take his socks off for those silly requests by photographers to express number of his titles with his digits. They are currently asking him whether he can get to 20 titles. If he does, he might decide to stop there, as getting to 21 might prove an problem when asked to show that with appendages.

Iyama is certainly showing no signs yet of stopping. Indeed, he is making a big effort to improve. He says he now spends less time at the go board and more gazing at a screen. He has decided he needs to dig more into the mysteries of AI.

But over the water there is a young man who appears to have come close to mastering AI, and his results show it. yet no-one on L19 talks about him. I am talking about Sin Chin-seo of Korea.

Sin has only won 23 titles so far, compared with Iyama's almost 80. But Sin is still only 22 and Iyama is 33. But consider this: Sin currently holds NINE titles, including FOUR international ones.

He holds the LG Cup, the Chunlan Cup, the Kuksu Mountains International Cup and the TV Asia Championship. Domestically, he holds the Sawpalcosanol Top Pros Cup, the GS Caltex Cup, the Myeongin, the KBS Cup and the Yongseong title. In addition, he led Korea to victory in the last Nongshim Cup, winning the last four games. (Iyama won four games for Japan but Sin ended undefeated.)

So, are we lager louts for preferring to talk about Japan when all the bubbles are sparkling in Korea?

[dfan]

There's a 125-comment thread about Shin Jinseo here although it hasn't had any comments in a few months.