Japanese Title and League scene

[CDavis7M]

This morning I was musing on the fact on the fact that I, and others as evidenced by this thread, like to keep an eye mostly on the Japanese go scene. But is it like preferring a glass of lager to a glass of champagne? ... Iyama is being feted in Japan a lot at the moment... Sin currently holds NINE titles, including FOUR international ones... So, are we lager louts for preferring to talk about Japan when all the bubbles are sparkling in Korea?

For me personally, I find Japanese Go to be the most accessible and Chinese Go to be the least accessible. Both China and Korea seem to be strict on what they will export. Baduk TV is on YouTube and I follow it here and there, but I spent hours and cannot figure out how to directly order a Go book from a Korean website. They need you to register and have an address. There are courier services but it's just another hurdle.

I enjoy international tournaments and these are covered by John Power, Michael Redmond, and probably other English speakers. Besides John Power, who is reporting on Go in English? It seems like there is just no "market" because Chinese speakers can already figure out where to read about Chinese Go.

It should be no surprise that Western audiences enjoy Japanese Go -- Japan is very good at actively spreading Japanese culture, even Go. Maybe it's not so well known but the Nihon Kiin overseas department not only exists but puts out videos in English or at least partly in English with English subtitles. Ichiriki knows a bit of English (from school?) and gave a few words in a video. (This reminds me that they released new videos I should order.) The Nihon Kiin also hosts a Summer Camp where highschool children can ship their parents away for a week.

Meanwhile, China seems opposed to exporting almost anything outside of wholesale junk pushed onto Amazon.com. China also blocks a lot of imports. Korea at least seems friendly enough but they aren't quite there yet. Still, Korean electronics have blazed the way and now their automotive industry has caught up, skincare is also expanding, and maybe Go will follow.

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Not to devolve the thread too much but I went onto Fox Go Server news since that it one of the few places I know to read about Chinese Go and I found news about Japanese Go: https://www.foxwq.com/news/13392.html

I'm just using the computer translation but the most-liked comment on the article is now deleted but it must have been along the same lines as the second comments "It's shameful for China to speak of Japan," but worse as it got replies like "what a bizarre theory" and "You must be mentally ill, by the way, you must be illiterate."

... there's probably a better place for news on Chinese Go.

[pajaro]

This morning I was musing on the fact on the fact that I, and others as evidenced by this thread, like to keep an eye mostly on the Japanese go scene.

I am European. This means that I learnt go from people who learnt go from prople who... Japanese.

When I learnt, I only knew about Japanese players or tournaments. Even "Japanese rules" were just "rules". It was the time when Cho Chikun, a Korean player, was dominating in Japan. So, if even non-Japanese players were playing in Japan, what was there to see in other countries? Today, the internet has made the world a lot smaller, as we all know. But in that time, the Korean or Chinese scene was simply... I don't know, too distant. And that has been also the case until today.

This is the reason why I am not very interested in the Chinese, Korean, Taiwanese... scenes. I know that the best players are not in Japan anymore. But this is like choosing a team in some sport. You choose because of your family, your town, or whatever, and then you stick with it for all your life. Even if you support that team that never wins, is always second to another... you don't change, do you? To me, this is one of the reasons why many people here follow the Japanese scene, and not others.

We might consider, too, that the tournaments work different. Preliminaries, leagues, final matches... the big tournaments take all year. Things happen slowly, and it is easier to follow. You don't have to check results everyday. In some Korean tournaments, I think, games are faster and all happens in few days. It may be exciting for fans who follow in the press or tv, but hard to follow if there is no information in other languages.

[CDavis7M]

It's worth mentioning (as there is no women's Baduk thread), that the AGA e-journal just posted an update by Edward Zhang (Capital Go Club) about Team Segwipo being ranked #1 in the Korean Women’s Baduk League and how Choi Jung is in the 5th rank team and may miss the playoffs.

For me, the AGA e-journal seems to be the best way to build interest. That and the online video streams from Baduk TV etc. Thanks to Edward for the Baduk news in English. Link to the new: https://www.usgo.org/news/2022/08/korea ... ue-update/

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To be less off topic, the AGA also has a fun "50 years ago" series with pictures and "news" of old Japanese title matches. https://www.usgo.org/news/2022/07/50-ye ... july-1972/

Snips:
-On July 7-8 the seventh game of the Hon’inbo title match happened between Rin Kaihō Meijin and Ishida Yoshio Hon’inbo.
-On July 23, the world patron of go, Iwamoto Kaoru left Japan for a tour of Europe.
- On July 26 1972, Segoe Kensaku, Honorary 9d, passed at age 83. He was simply a giant of go in the early part of the 20th Century. Central to the founding of the Nihon Ki’in, he became for decades its elder statesman.

It goes on about Segoe's efforts during wartime Japan, Hashimoto's speech about the bombing when he was in New York for the Kisei title, and there is also a shout out to “Go in Wartime Japan” chapter from The Go Companion, also in GoGoD encyclopedia, which is maybe my favorite essay in the encyclopedia. Highly recommended.

I'll leave this picture of Iwamoto off to Europe (from the article). He seems in high hopes that 50 years from now people will be discussing Japanese Go.

2022.07.10_19720723_iwamoto_and_kodama.jpg (141.23 KiB) Viewed 7674 times

Also thanks to Iwamoto for being concerned about our wallets. No champagne is needed. Pick up a 12 pack of Sapporo or Asahi instead. Though I do like Echigo Koshihikari...

[thirdfogie]

Sin currently holds NINE titles, including FOUR international ones... So, are we lager louts for preferring to talk about Japan when all the bubbles are sparkling in Korea?

It's only a drop in the bucket, but Baduk Doctor posted an English-language review of a game between Shin Jinseo (his spelling) and Ke Jie here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H1IVW4FpPA. Well worth watching.

[CDavis7M]

Sin currently holds NINE titles, including FOUR international ones... So, are we lager louts for preferring to talk about Japan when all the bubbles are sparkling in Korea?

It's only a drop in the bucket, but Baduk Doctor posted an English-language review of a game between Shin Jinseo (his spelling) and Ke Jie here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H1IVW4FpPA. Well worth watching.

Wow. Great to have commentary in English and this was a great game. Baduk Doctor has a lot of good lectures. We need a Chinese league discussion.

I don't know who this guy is, but "JKGO Channel" (JKGOチャンネル) has a bunch of good game reviews in Japanese. He speaks fairly slowly and has plenty of variations to discuss. One part people may not like is that he reviews in the Japanese Style (if that's a thing) where he descriptively narrates many moves without additional comment. I find that most English removes skip straight to the variations without this style of narration.

He is a Sumire fan it seems.

5.59K subscribers(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0iFVlK ... D%E3%83%AB)

[pajaro]

I don't know who this guy is, but "JKGO Channel" (JKGOチャンネル) has a bunch of good game reviews in Japanese.

I don't know him either.

I asked in another thread (viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18505) about him, I didn't get an answer. Let's see if we are luckier this time.
To me, he must be a veteran pro, not too busy, not too old, not too young.

[CDavis7M]

I watched game 2 of the Meijin title match. Game 2 can't top the opening ceremony of game 1 but what was exciting was Shibano winning. Isa Atsushi was there joining Yokotsuka Riki for commentary. I have seen Yokotsuka around before but not sure where. It seems like Iyama made a misstep in the fight in the center. They were taking a lot of time here, I think right up to byoyomi.

Speaking of JKGO, he covered it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI0C6O- ... D%E3%83%AB

I'm happy with how much Japanese I can pick up, even though my brain is several seconds delayed on what I do catch, and I miss a lot. And this is JKGO who seems to talk slower than most.

[CDavis7M]

A mini recap of the Japanese title and league scene. The Meijin title match is on-going. The Oza and Tengen are next. Kisei will be after these next year. Then Judan and then the Honinbo.
Meijin: Shibano is challenging Iyama and they are 1-1.
Tengen: Ida Atsushi beat Ichiriki to challenge Seki Koutarou.
Oza: Yo Seiki beat Shibano to challenge Iyama (who took it from Shibano).
Kisei: The winners of C, B, A, and 2 from S league will play. Shibano is top of S league but I think there needs to be a playoff for the 2nd best. Yamashita Keigo won A league. One of these guys will challenge Ichiriki.
Judan: Held be Kyo Kagen but still not to the final rounds yet.
Honinbo: see below.

So the days of Ichiriki vs Iyama are over. Whew! ... At least until maybe the next Honinbo...

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The 78th Honinbo league is set. It includes the top 4 contenders from last time and a new set of 4. You can guess who were the top 4 last time right? The 3 Reiwa crows Ichiriki, Shibano, and Kyo, and also (maybe a bit more luck in guessing), Yo Seiki.

The new 4 are
Tsuruyama Atsushi: Made it to the last two Honinbo leagues but was in the bottom 4. He is pretty active in the Nihon Kiin videos and publications and runs his own channel too.
Motoki Katsuya: Challenged in the 72nd Honinbo. I'm pretty sure I recognize him from commentary also.
Fujita Akihiko: He seems familiar, maybe he's been on stream.
Otake Yu: he just beat Fujisawa Rina to get here.

I can't say I'm too excited for any of the new 4 except Tsuruyama. He's a fun guy. I hope we get a live stream for one of his games.

I'm more looking forward to Shibano's next Meijin game.

[pajaro]

So the days of Ichiriki vs Iyama are over. Whew! ... At least until maybe the next Honinbo...

Not yet.

Iyama might be 2nd in the S league. So he could still be the challenger. Not easy, of course. First he must be 2nd (might is not enough). Then he has to beat the player coming from below (*) and then, beat Shibano twice in a row. Yes, twice, in the middle -maybe- of their Meijin match.

Not easy, not impossible.

(*) For those who don't know, the challenger of the Kisei is decided with a "stair play-off". The winner of C league plays the winner of B (who, btw, is the winner of B1 vs. B2). The winner of this, against the winner of A. The winner of this, against the 2nd of S. And the winner of this, has to win 2 games against the winner of S. The winner of S only has to win one game.

[CDavis7M]

Oh no! Haha, you're right! The next games are coming up soon. So who are we relying on to save us from another IchiYama match? ... It's Kyo Kagen. He's my only hope but I am not confident. Wait, if Takao beats Murakawa maybe there will be a play off for 2nd of S league. Maybe Takao is Iyama's bane!

[pajaro]

I think that the 2nd of the S league, in case of a tie, will be decided by ranking. Iyama is obviously above everybody else.

Do not worry too much: he needs to win 4 games to become the challenger. If he does this (he can...), Ichiriki will sweat more than you!

[kvasir]

I gathered from the kiin webpages that Takao won against Murakawa in the S league but the results are not up elsewhere and I missed the end of the broadcast. If true then only Iyama and Takao are in the run for the second qualification. An interesting side effect if Iyama gets the second place is that there is a chance he will play a mini-match with Shibano that could be concurrent or right after the Meijin match between the pair. That would be very interesting, but I am still rooting for Takao because I find his style agreeable. The 3rd game of the Meijin match commenced this very hour.

[kvasir]

Michael Redmond and Francis Meyer appear to be doing very well in the Oza preliminaries. I am not sure if that is titles and leagues, maybe we need another thread?

The situation with Michael Redmond is that he has won 3 games and is almost through to preliminary A. The situation with Francis Meyer appears more complicated since he appears to have progressed to preliminary A and won a game there, leaving two more to go (to get to the final tournament, I presume), yet he is recorded with a loss in his final game in preliminary B. That is according to the game search on the Kansai Kiin webpage. Maybe an internet sleuth can get to the bottom of this!

Iyama's game with Kyo Kagen in the Kisei S league has been scheduled for 22nd September. I noticed just now that Kyo Kagen is up against the wall in this one, he has no chance of qualifying because of the tiebreaker and is still at risk of demotion.

[Elom0]

Michael Redmond and Francis Meyer appear to be doing very well in the Oza preliminaries. I am not sure if that is titles and leagues, maybe we need another thread?

The situation with Michael Redmond is that he has won 3 games and is almost through to preliminary A. The situation with Francis Meyer appears more complicated since he appears to have progressed to preliminary A and won a game there, leaving two more to go (to get to the final tournament, I presume), yet he is recorded with a loss in his final game in preliminary B. That is according to the game search on the Kansai Kiin webpage. Maybe an internet sleuth can get to the bottom of this!

Iyama's game with Kyo Kagen in the Kisei S league has been scheduled for 22nd September. I noticed just now that Kyo Kagen is up against the wall in this one, he has no chance of qualifying because of the tiebreaker and is still at risk of demotion.

Micheal Redmond and others report

[kvasir]

Micheal Redmond and others report

Sounds fine. Except that I think it is Michael

How about "Michael Redmond and the gang!", too much? I guess.

Can the original poster edit the title if we figure a more clever title later?