Pro Go/Baduk/Weiqi podcast with gazza and xiaodai

[xiaodai]

I might need to invest in a proper mic. I still have my yeti

[xiaodai]

Choi Jung was just playing a player called Ding Minjun in the Women's Jia League. I'm not sure who she is, but maybe she is of both Chinese and Korean heritage???

edit: It's actually not the Jia league . . . hmmm

It's actually the Yi League. Jia = 1st division and Yi = 2nd division.

[xiaodai]

Episode 18

00:00 - Start
0:19 - China Jia League round 4
6:46 - China Jia League round 5
20:09 - China Jia League round 6
30:03 - China Jia League round 7
45:07 - China Jia League round 8
1:09:27 - North American Masters
1:16:53 - China Women's Yi League
1:27:26 - Kuksu Mountains International Cup preview
1:41:44 - Japan Kisei League A update

[xiaodai]

Episode 19

00:00 - Start

0:56 - Kuksu Mountains International Cup round 1

15:30 - Kuksu Mountains International Cup quarterfinals

22:56 - Kuksu Mountains International Cup semifinals

23:32 - Kuksu Mountains International Cup final (Byun Sangil vs Shin Jinseo)

36:00 - Nakamura Sumire wins Discovery Cup

41:18 - China Women's Yi League

54:46 - Korea GS Caltex Cup final game 1 (Shin Jinseo vs Byun Sangil)

1:03:20 - Korea GS Caltex Cup final game 2 (Byun Sangil vs Shin Jinseo)

1:13:31 - Quzhou Lanke International Cup Chinese qualifiers

1:36:24 - Leo Fujita 9 year old Japanese pro

[Elom0]

Wow the sound is perfect now

I'm thinking maybe they should just put Shin Jinseo as the first board in the Nongshim Cup and see if he can beat everyone,, Lee Sedol got the chance to try it so I wanthim to see that it is not him but Shin Jinseo who should be allowed to try that feat, or just pick Choi Jung as a wildcard and place her first then Shin Jinseo to troll. I mean I would have . . . But then then China would obviously just put Mi Yuting Up, haha.

[xiaodai]

I do wonder from a strategy perspective if it's better to put your best player first. Sincce it has the highest chance of creating an imbalance.

[kvasir]

When a team is eliminated it is always because they lost their last game. In contrast there are still 9 opposite players to eliminate after winning the first game. I think it has to be preferable to use the strongest player at the very end when there will be must win games. Finally there will only be two teams left and there is always a single game that is the deciding game. In contrast, what happens in the first game is never decisive.

[xiaodai]

Here's my logic. Imagine if you enter into a win and continue tournament. You have an option of bringing 4 or 5 palyers into the comp. Would u ever choose 4?

No.

So it's preferable to have more players. What's your best chance of creating a situation where you have more players? By playing your strongest player first.

I think if you do a simulation, you will find that that's the best strategy to increase the overall win rate

[kvasir]

Hmm, maybe there is more to it.

A simple example:

If we have only two teams and two players in each team and assume our player's win rate is same for all the opponents and call them p and q. Then our probability of winning is pp + p(1-p)q + (1-p)qq which is symmetric in the way that if we swap p and q it has the same value.

A different example:

If we instead have three teams but this time we have two players with same p, q probabilities as before but the other teams have a single player. Then our probability of winning is pp + p(1-p)q + (1-p)q, because the other teams eliminate a player when p loses. We can simplify this to pp(1-q) + q.

Let p:=c-x and q:=c+x and we can write a function f = (c – x)(c – x)(1 – c - x) + c + x that is our team's probability of winning this tournament if the players win probability is separated by x around a mid point c.

Let's be the cool kids and use Wolfram Alpha.

Screenshot 2022-08-26 085525.png (80.84 KiB) Viewed 19082 times

Maybe I made some mistakes (probably) but here goes!

It really looks like placing the better player last is better. It is also interesting that the winning probability for the team increases when the players have more different win rates. Here is a wolfram alpha link for the graph.

The graph shows how the team's wining probability (the y-axis) changes depending on the difference of the players' win rates from the team's average. I fixed the team's average at 70% because it gives a good curve. If you look at the graph you can see that if x = 0.1, that is there is a player with 60% win rate that goes first and a player with 80% win rate that goes second, the team's probability is around 87% in this case. If in stead you look at x = -0.1, which swaps the players so that the 80% player goes first and the 60% second, then the team's probability is less than 86%. This is not much difference but let me throw in a plot of a more realistic case when the average win rate is 50%, in this case ordering the players really does matter a lot because the curves low point is on the left side of the axis.

Screenshot 2022-08-26 092000.png (35.69 KiB) Viewed 19082 times

[xiaodai]

Episode 20

00:00 - Start

0:26 - Japan Meijin game 1 (Shibano Toramaru vs Iyama Yuta)

14:54 - Korea GS Caltex Cup final game 3 (Shin Jinseo vs Byun Sangil)

33:56 - China Jia League (Ke Jie vs Shin Jinseo)

1:03:07 - Quzhou Lanke International Cup Chinese qualifiers

1:24:03 - Nie Weiping under-20 Cup preview

[xiaodai]

Episode 21

00:00 - Start
1:24 - Nie Weiping under-20 Cup round of 16
15:23 - Nie Weiping under-20 Cup quarterfinals
22:39 - Samsung Cup Korean qualifiers
51:29 - Samsung Cup Chinese qualifiers update
1:04:47 - China Jia League round 10 (Li Xuanhao vs Gu Zihao)
1:18:34 - Korea Myungin update
1:26:00 - Japan Women's Honinbo challenger final (Kato Chie vs Ueno Asami)
1:29:55 - Japan Tengen challenger determined
1:33:30 - Japan Oza challenger determined
1:34:58 - Ke Jie trolled on social media
1:41:36 - Ke Jie has a new travel show
1:46:31 - Seo Bongsoo exhibition special

[xiaodai]

Episode 22

00:00 - Start
0:18 - Japan Meijin game 2 (Iyama Yuta vs Shibano Toramaru)
15:04 - Korea GG Auction Cup (Cho Hanseung vs Choi Jeong)
42:25 - Japan Honinbo prelim (Fujisawa Rina vs Otake Yu)
1:06:27 - Korea Myungin update (Shin Minjun vs Byun Sangil)
1:18:42 - China Jia League round 11 (Xie Erhao vs Shin Jinseo)
1:42:30 - Taiwan Women's Strongest final (Lu Yuhua vs Yang Zixuan)

[xiaodai]

Episode 23

00:00 - Start
0:22 - Seo Bongsoo special games
40:00 - Japan Meijin game 2 (Shibano Toramaru vs Iyama Yuta)
1:04:41 - Fujisawa Rina qualifies for Judan main tournament

[xiaodai]

Episdoe 24

00:00 - Start
0:18 - China CCTV Cup - early rounds
18:07 - China CCTV Cup final (Xie Erhao vs Shi Yue)
22:02 - China Tianyuan game 1 (Mi Yuting vs Gu Zihao)
29:14 - China Tianyuan game 2 (Gu Zihao vs Mi Yuting)
31:47 - China Tianyuan game 3 (Gu Zihao vs Mi Yuting)
39:03 - Korea Myungin (Shin Jinseo vs Park Junghwan)
46:37 - Korea Myungin (Shin Minjun vs Weon Seongjin)
55:01 - Korea Myungin (Shin Minjun vs Park Junghwan)
1:14:16 - Korea Women's League playoffs

[xiaodai]

Episode 25

00:00 - Start
0:16 - Wu Qingyuan Cup semifinals (Choi Jeong vs Oh Yujin, Kim Cheayoung vs Wang Chenxing)
11:02 - Wu Qingyuan Cup final (Oh Yujin vs Wang Chenxing)
20:41 - Japan Kisei update
37:59 - Korea Dr.G Women's Strongest tournament preview and early results
57:06 - Samsung Cup qualification update
1:23:53 - China Jia League update (Xu Jiayang vs Shin Jinseo, Ke Jie vs Wang Xinghao)
1:41:59 - Korea Ha Chanseok 10th anniversary tournament final