Japanese Title and League scene

[Elom0]

This may be Yamashita Keigo's last chance. I feel so bad for him, but I'm happy for Shibano Toramanu!

[pajaro]

This weekend (Nov 26-27) we have the Wakagoi / Hiroshima Aluminum Tournament.

Broadcasted here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPxib-MV54I

It's like the Shinjin O. But in a weekend.

[Elom0]

This weekend (Nov 26-27) we have the Wakagoi / Hiroshima Aluminum Tournament.

Broadcasted here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPxib-MV54I

It's like the Shinjin O. But in a weekend.

This tournament is definitely hype-worthy!

Ueno 2 for 2?　Unless it's the final we're all hoping for, Ueno-Fujisawa!

[pajaro]

Ueno 2 for 2?　Unless it's the final we're all hoping for, Ueno-Fujisawa!

It might be Ueno 2 for 2.
It won't be Ueno-Fujisawa.
It could be Ueno-Otake.

2nd day, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EyRMZpcEdk

[Elom0]

Ueno 2 for 2?　Unless it's the final we're all hoping for, Ueno-Fujisawa!

It might be Ueno 2 for 2.
It won't be Ueno-Fujisawa.
It could be Ueno-Otake.

2nd day, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EyRMZpcEdk

Okay the way Ueno dispatched the Agon Kiriyama Cup holder, I think she will win it Again. And She'll probably qualify for the Asia TV Cup in 5 years. She's a speed go demon.

[pajaro]

Here it is: Ueno Asami 4-dan, winner of the Wakagoi Cup for the second time in a row.

She was in danger in the semifinal against Koyama Kuya 5-dan (who beat Fujisawa in the 2nd round) winning by half point. But she had an easier time against Koike Yoshihiro 7-dan (who beat Sumire in the first round). Ueno also beat Hirata Tomoya 7-dan, winner of the Agon Kiriyama Cup, who won Takao Mari 1-dan in the first round. This could have been in the Amazon thread

The hammer did very well.

[pajaro]

4th game of the Tengen today.

Ida Atsushi, playing black, played his first move in Tengen.

Let's remember that in the first game, he played Tengen in this first move too, but playing white.

He has lost both of these games, and won both "usual" games. Today, he most likely thought that being ahead, he could afford the risk and it would be cool to win the Tengen title playing Tengen. Yes, it would be so cool, but you have to win. I am sure that his fans won't regret it so much if he loses because of this.

In the last game, they will nigiri again. Where will he play his first move?

[kvasir]

I wonder which is more important to Seki Kotaro about the final game in the Tengen match:

1. keep the title
2. become 9 dan

Any insight?

[pajaro]

That's a difficult question.

Both goals come together in this case. But if he were to pick only one...

if Kotaro wins the title, he inmediatly gets a prize. But if he becomes 9-dan, he will get paid better (I think) for wins from now on. So in the long term, he could make more than the prize for winning the title. Also, if he lost the title, he could win another one in the near future. But being promoted based on wins takes a looot of time. And the chance to win Tengen/Gosei/Judan/Oza twice in a row may not come again.

So I'd say that if he thinks in the long term, promotion is better.

[John Fairbairn]

But if he becomes 9-dan, he will get paid better (I think) for wins from now on.

Game fees according to ranks were abolished a long time ago (in 2003). at the same time that entry into tournaments was made no longer dependent on dannage but on merit. Prior to 2003, if you were 1-4 dan you automatically entered an event in the lowest preliminary. That was changed so that if you did well and got promoted to the next preliminary before losing, you re-entered the following year in that next preliminary.

Furthermore, when the Oteai was abolished just before that, the bonuses paid to 9-dans in lieu of game fees (since 9-dans didn't play in the Oteai as they couldn't be promoted any further) also disappeared (having already been very heavily cut as the Oteai no longer had a sponsor). 9-dans also lost their right to appear in the top preliminaries automatically, i.e. they could be demoted (not in rank but in tournament entry-level).

The thinking was twofold. There were too many 9-dans as a result of rank inflation and they were costing the hard-up Nihon Ki-in too much. There was also a feeling that the young talent that was needed to challenge for international honours was being stifled by the old system. They needed more games at the higher levels.

[pajaro]

Game fees according to ranks were abolished a long time ago (in 2003)

Oh, right... that was one of the points of the new system.

Now that I think about it... when Yamashita became Kisei for the first time, he was 7-dan. I think it was by the time the system changed, maybe it was also one of the reasons why automatic promotions came to play.

But I remember Yamashita was more concerned with the title than with the rank. Same could go for Kotaro.

[John Fairbairn]

maybe it was also one of the reasons why automatic promotions came to play.

Yes, it was then.

There are quite a few reasons to collect titles. One is that if you get 5 of some, you get a pension. Maybe the biggest is that you get seeded to the final the next time, an automatic big pay day again. Although the tournament scene varies over time, there are usually perks such as title holders getting invitations to invitation events or exhibitions.

[kvasir]

Is it win twice in a row or win the same title twice? If it is twice in a row then the current situation is very special. Also if you win the Tengen, Oza and Gosei as an 8 dan is that best described with the expression "close but no cigar"?

I imagine there isn't much difference between being 8 or 9 dan while a player is a rising star that is already close to becoming a 9 dan anyway, but maybe this is something that changes if a player never progresses to the next step. Besides how it might affect the income I wonder which is more important. Winning the Tengen twice is more than almost anyone but still others will have held it more times and you only hold it for one year at a time. The 9 dan, on the other hand, is the pinnacle, it's the highest rank.

As mentioned being seeded to the final in the next edition surely increases the money payout greatly. Also there might be more time for other tournaments if you are seeded in to the final in one or more titles. Still, that is the short or medium term benefit of holding the title for one more year but once you make it you are always a 9 dan.

[Ferran]

The following has been handcopied. While I have the NK's file, it was way too full of extras and it was way too much work to cleanup. So, basically, there might be some mistakes.

Take care.

[John Fairbairn]

Those who want to play through the game above may be interested in some comments from Japan.

Ida's play at tengen is rated a 6% drop in win rate according to the AI they use. (And that was the only mention of AI in the long commentary.) I'd guess that Ida wanted to avoid conventional, prepared AI openings, but in any case he explained that such figures are irrelevant to humans in match play.

11 to 30 is regarded as virtually a joseki sequence. This was the view of Yamada Kimio (the referee) and Muramatsu Hiroki.

Generally speaking, if the tengen player can build a moyo (hence Black 31) and get an attack (hence the shoulder-hit 35), he has succeeded. Otherwise, obviously (hence White's reduction manoeuvre 34 to 42), he has failed. The first major evaluation point in this regard came with Black 45.

This was a forking point for Black. He chose to be patient. The choice was to push in and cut at L12. However, it was assumed that Ida didn't fancy the push-and-cut because White had sabaki (coping) options at K9 or M7. Nevertheless, the press-room analysts disliked the quiet connection at 45, and though that the way the game developed confirmed their view. 45 wasn't an outright mistake but did make the game difficult for Black. The reason was that Black would like to answer 46 at 48, but then White 63 (M14) makes his shoulder hit at 35 look stupid. As a result, Black had to accept swimming in murky waters with another shoulder-hit at 47.

The next major evaluation point was after White 48 to 56, where Black has lost his corner, and so is behind on the balance of territories. That in turn explains Black's aggression at 57 and 59, to which White responded with a probe at 60. White was also pre-empting a Black move at 60 which forces White S18.

Black chose to go for capture of the White centre group with 61, but Seki was happy because he felt that capture of that group was no big deal.

The magari at 65 signalled the lunch break.

AI can't tell you all that, can it?

There were many more comments, of course, but the gist was that Black was always walking up a down escalator because he was behind on the balance of territories (Black has ippoji). White 82 and 84 were excellent moves in that they confirmed the balance in is favour and made the game even harder for Black (he is too thin in too many places because of the ippoji). White 98 and 100 likewise.

White (Seki), however, was rash with 134, the only move in the game he regretted. He said he should have played at 135. But he got away with the subsequent decisive ko because he had too many internal ko threats.

PS Two extra points:

(1) Seki Kotaro and Ida Atsushi, PLEEEEEASE!
(2) Seki was using a fan he inscribed himself saying "Believe!" 信念. Fine, though bland. But I thought the handwriting was atrocious. Cultural vandalism. The modern age, with too much reliance on computers. I suppose the compensation, as with all young people, is that he can probably move his thumbs like a fiddler's elbow on speed, but I think if you write like that you should print your fans out.