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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #361 Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:23 pm 
Oza

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The following recent game will provide food for thought for those who think sente means sente.

The commentary was was headlined "Hon controls the pace from beginning to end."

Note that Hon was White so he did not start with sente, so you might quibble a smidgeon about the headline, but see how he kept the initiative throughout.



12 to 25 is a known pattern now, after which P9 is a good point for White, but Hon chose to "rush" to 26. Time (= pace) is a major element in controlling the initiative, and that means you can control the initiative with moves other than sente forcing moves. This is something Go Seigen exemplified.

Black chose to answer 26 by starting a fight with 27 (a tsume is an aggressive move) - deluding himself into thinking he has the initiative.

Black further tried to assert himself with the cut at 45 but after 49 and 51 who has sente and who has the initiative? The commentary implies White has the initiative because 49 and 51 were overplays.

White 56 was "a good move" - and not even quite sente. (White has a squeeze line if Black plays M5 here).

With 57 and 59 Black is in a bad way. Not in danger - just battered and bruised. Safe B&B groups are just as bad as weak groups on the lam.

White 62 and 64 are now "sufficient" - gote, but not a fancy honte be it noted. Just plain ol' gote. Which means Black has sente. But does he have the initiative?

White 78 runs away. Gote? No. It is a "severe" move. That is because White 86 is another good move - not what most people call sente but certainly [u]maintains[/] his initiative. It does not give him the "lead", to bring up another term tossed around. It gives him a "superior position" (i.e. a qualitataive assessment rather than a quantitative one). White only got a winning position after move 254.

The above comments are essentially filched from those of Takemiya's son, a 6-dan pro. But the spin and provocation are mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #362 Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:05 pm 
Oza
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After a hiatus due to heavy loads professional work (business trips where I expected to play more go but actually had to go for the compulsory social stuff instead) I played a few games again and continued my training sessions with AI Sensei. I got my 2d rank at OGS but it's still brittle.

The goal remains to play higher ranked players (2-4d) and to apply lessons learnt, like "defend while making territory".

In general I think my games are of a higher quality these days, in the sense that there are no stupid blunders, everything is relatively thought through and mistakes are genuine incapacities in decision making or reading. In other words, I'm playing up to my level of understanding and any lesson learnt is a new insight, or an application of a recently acquired insight, not like a beginner's mistake. I find that encouraging.


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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #363 Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 3:56 pm 
Oza
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If I post this as a problem, many people will get it. Still in the game I thought about it and didn't. What makes it so hard to be consistently good at life and death in games?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 7 8 . 3 . 4 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O O 6 X O O X . O O . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X X O . . 2 1 X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O O O O X . X O O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X X X O X X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #364 Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:28 pm 
Lives in gote

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Right, this is why some books do "status" problems instead of "play and kill". I spent a full minute thinking "What's he talking about? It's clearly a seki!" before seeing <hidden>. And in a game, without the hint to look for something better, I might also have settled for the seki.

Snapback is meant to be an elementary tactic! But somehow, having :b7: in atari makes it harder for my amateur go brain to see threats on the right hand side of the shape.

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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #365 Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:55 am 
Oza
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After a hiatus, played some games again, but without deliberate practice the level has gone down. I'm back to taking too much risk in the middle game, thirsty for dragon blood, instead of defending my own groups and calmly taking profit. I'm a "killer of Go" by nature but too often a "suicide pilot of Go" :)


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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #366 Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:30 pm 
Lives in gote

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Welcome back!

I've had a few real-life distractions but hope to play some go in the second half of the year. I dread to think what my first game back is going to be like...

Thanks for the "dragon blood" and "suicide pilot" images. I'll try to remember those.

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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #367 Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 9:00 am 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Move 126
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O X O O O . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X . . O . O O . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . b . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . X . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . . . . X X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . O X X . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . O O X O , . . X O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . d . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . a O . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X O O O X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O . O X X . . O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . O , . . . . . O O e . |
$$ | . O X O O O X . . . . 1 . X . O X O . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . f . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I had not really calculated the score but ever since the middle game I had the idea that if I saved my group running from the upper left, I was ahead, probably by komi. So at move 126, seeing this move, which creates more eyespace for my group while reducing that of the Black bottom right corner, I though this was enough.

It turned out it was, but by a margin of only 3.5

Also, there's a more urgent move at A, which destroys territory in sente and reinforces White's shape.

Anyhow we're in the early endgame now, where groups are safe but can still be threatened and where territories are sketched out but not all have clear borders yet.

Big moves are now (preventing)
- The aforementioned stretch at A
- White's jump at B
- the 2nd line diagonal at C
- Black's hane at D
- Black's capture at E
- White's jump down at F


We now know A is probably biggest. Then I would pick C, D, E, B, F

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 127 to 136
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X . . O . O O . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . X . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . . . . X X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . O X X . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . O O X O , . . X O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X . . . . . 9 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . . . . 7 8 . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X O O O X X X X . . O . 5 . |
$$ | . X O . O X X . . O O O . . . . . 2 6 |
$$ | . X O O . O X . O , . . . . . O O 1 . |
$$ | . O X O O O X . . . . O . X . O X O 3 |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


128: since Black had taken E, I chose D, which was bigger in itself and now also offered protection to my stones in the lower left

130: It took some reading to decide this descent could not be punished too severely.

132-134-136: I answered a bit passively but given the gain at 129-130 I'd maintain a lead.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 137 to 146
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X . . O . O O . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . X . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . . . . X X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . O X X . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . O O X O , . . X O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . 5 3 2 O 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 8 0 O . O X . . 4 . . X O . . . |
$$ | . 6 . . . X . . X . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . 7 X X . X O O O X X X X . . O . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X X . . O O O . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X O O . O X . O , . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O O X . . . . O . X . O X . X |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


138: this is where I drew the line

142: exploiting the aji on the left

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 147 to 156
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O X O O O . . . . . 2 3 . 7 . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X . . O . O O . X . . 5 . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . X X . X X 4 . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . O . O O 6 . |
$$ | . . O X O . X . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . . . . X X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . O X X . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . O O X O , . . X O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . X X O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O X . . O . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O . 1 . X . . X . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O O X X X X . . O . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X X . . O O O . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X O O . O X . O , . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O O X 0 . . . O . X . O X . X |
$$ | . O X O . . . 9 8 . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


148: and taking the big move at the top

150-152: a gote endgame, not as big as the other moves

154: fortunately Black obliged again and again, so I take yet another big point

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 157 to 160
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O X O O O . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X . . O . O O . X . . X . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . 4 . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . O X O . X . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O X . . . . . X X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . O X X . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . O O X O , . . X O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . X X O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O X . . O . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . X . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O O O X X X X . . O . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X X . . O O O . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X O O . O X . O , . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O O X O . . . O . X . O X . X |
$$ | . O X O . 1 3 X O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


160: finally I get to play this one too. All in all I got 6 of the 7 big moves and even got another one in in sente, thanks to Black's complacency.

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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #368 Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 3:53 pm 
Oza
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With all that studying Takagawa my rank has dropped to 1 kyu ... I even lost a 5H against a 5d. Quite embarrassing ...

I feel the level is going down. Or perhaps others are getting stronger by studying the right things, like my moves. Who knows.

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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #369 Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:45 am 
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Knotwilg wrote:
my rank has dropped to 1 kyu


You too? :)
More seriously, ranks naturally fluctuate by 1 stone due to luck, level of concentration, tiredness,... They may fluctuate even more on KGS if you play infrequently. Conversely, learning some new technique only gains a tiny fraction of a stone, so it's impossible to check if you improved or got worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #370 Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:10 am 
Oza
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jlt wrote:
Knotwilg wrote:
my rank has dropped to 1 kyu


You too? :)
More seriously, ranks naturally fluctuate by 1 stone due to luck, level of concentration, tiredness,... They may fluctuate even more on KGS if you play infrequently. Conversely, learning some new technique only gains a tiny fraction of a stone, so it's impossible to check if you improved or got worse.


Playing more would definitely help...

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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #371 Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:36 am 
Lives with ko

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Knotwilg wrote:
With all that studying Takagawa my rank has dropped to 1 kyu ... I even lost a 5H against a 5d. Quite embarrassing ...

I feel the level is going down. Or perhaps others are getting stronger by studying the right things, like my moves. Who knows.



I think reviewing pro games with AI should carry the same sort of warning that once appeared in the British Go Journal (No.38) in the late '70s,in relation to reading Go books:

"Too much reading can even become a form of escape, away from the reality of the board where you keep getting beaten up by untutored louts with nothing but talent, into a Platonic realm where, with Ishida at your shoulder and Sakata patiently explaining every move, you have the illusion of actually understanding things for five seconds at a time. But if you really want to improve, you must play....."


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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #372 Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 5:04 pm 
Oza
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After viewing - and writing about - TelegraphGo's account of his quest to Fox 9d, completed in 7 years, I took his final piece of advice to heart. I'd say, again. It's not different from what I had been doing in 2022 and 2023, what keeps happening though is being on/off, while TelegraphGo has made Go his main pursuit in life (apart perhaps from academics or work, he's not explicit on what's happening outside his Go life).

The advice is: "Be honest with yourself on what separates your current level of play from the level you aspire. At the same time, be confident you can bridge the gap, if you put in the effort."

Still not so sure about the longevity of this umptieth attempt, I took my most recent game as a new reference. Four moves stand out.

58 - corners then side then center
98 - defending big group not small stones
164 - understand big kos
192 - understand smaller kos

If there's a theme - TelegraphGo recommends isolating one or maybe a few things to improve next time - it's ko. I'll take this forward because it's generic enough as a theme to get some practice in future games. When there's a ko, or a looming ko, I will try harder figuring out how valuable it is and how it may develop. I also want to do some off-game practice in evaluating kos. I'll grab a few KGS 3d games or Fox 5d games, one level up mine, and look for kos in those.


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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #373 Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2024 12:05 am 
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Nice game, you played well. You can also check the joseki mistakes ^^ not big ones but always good to play efficient moves in the corners.

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