KataGo self-play games + video reviews

Maharani · Post by **Maharani** » Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:17 pm

Here's my 10-kyu rundown of game 103 (7 komi, NZ rules):
Moves 1 — 28: White builds a left-side moyo between two small black corners. Black builds a large upper right moyo.
29 — 39: Black invades white's moyo and enlarges his own.
40 — 58: White invades and lives in black's upper right corner in sente, then grabs a lower right corner enclosure.
59 — 65: Black begins to connect his left side group to his upper side territory.
66 — 105: White invades and reduces black's right side moyo but makes no points. Black makes territory on the bottom in the process.
106 — 115: White forces black into connecting out his left side dragon while white profits in the center.
116 — 311: Basically two hundred moves of end game.

It's a draw.
https://online-go.com/review/986389

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Black's turn. Black will make twenty points on the upper side and connect out his C10 stones. Which colour do you prefer? $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . W . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X X X . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Maharani · Post by **Maharani** » Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:00 pm

Game 104 (7 komi, NZ rules) was a mindboggling game that featured eight kos and seven freestanding empty triangles. It ended as a draw with only two living groups per player. https://online-go.com/review/990085

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Game 102 continued at a instead of C5. $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O W O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

.sgf:

Maharani · Post by **Maharani** » Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:02 pm

The first 28 moves of game 105 (7 komi, NZ rules) look like two DDK players each building a ridiculous moyo... then the fun starts, including lots of crazy sacrifices. At move 213, KataGo still thinks the game is even, but white ends up winning by 24 points by means of a ginormous seki. https://online-go.com/review/992450

Clossius, AGA 3d did a 25-minute video review of this game! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BYb1Hj8H8Y

I’ve included all of his (commented) variations, plus more KataGo variations, in the OGS review as well.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Black to play. $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . O O . . X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Maharani · Post by **Maharani** » Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:58 pm

Unlike the previous two games with only two living groups per player, game 106 (7 komi, NZ rules) ends up with four living groups per player, including three groups that live with 4 or fewer points. White wins the game by 2 points. https://online-go.com/review/998979

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Games 88, 99 and 100 continued at a instead of S4. $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X O . O a W . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

.sgf:

Maharani · Post by **Maharani** » Thu Jan 11, 2024 11:40 pm

In game 107 (7 komi, NZ rules), a large ko is set up at move 142 that takes another 128 moves to resolve. White wins the ko, and the game by 6 points. https://online-go.com/review/1001229

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Game 122 will continue at a instead of O6. $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X O X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Maharani · Post by **Maharani** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:05 am

Game 108 (7 komi, NZ rules) saw a very complicated fight on the right side spiral into the center. At the last minute, a ko results in the surprising trade of eight black stones on the right side for nine white stones in the upper left corner. The game ends as a draw. https://online-go.com/review/1003989

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Game 113 will continue at a instead of P7. $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O W . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X a O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X O X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

.sgf:

Maharani · Post by **Maharani** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:08 pm

In game 109 (7 komi, NZ rules), after move 86, it looks like black could make a solid 30-point territory on the right side if he defends. But black doesn't defend, and by the end of the game is reduced to only 5 points there, while white has made 18 points in the area herself. A fun ko starts at move 207 and is fought for almost 80 moves. White wins the game by 2 points. https://online-go.com/review/1007055

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Games 106, 107 and 108 continued at a, b and c instead of C12. $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X O X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

.sgf:

Maharani · Post by **Maharani** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:18 am

The first 16 moves of game 110 (7 komi, NZ rules) look remarkably human to me. Move 69 is a tesuji and a half. By move 129, black has three corners and a large center moyo, but white makes sabaki in there and reduces it to nothing. Move 142 results in beautiful local symmetry. The endgame sees both players happily wasting ko threats, signifying a draw. https://online-go.com/review/1009972

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Games 44, 51, 52, 55, 62, 77 and 78 continued at a instead of Q3. $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

.sgf:

xela · Post by **xela** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:24 am

Maharani wrote:Game 104 (7 komi, NZ rules) was a mindboggling game that featured eight kos and seven freestanding empty triangles. It ended as a draw with only two living groups per player.

Sorry I'm not able to keep up with the pace and review every game here. This one was very exciting! And right after the other festival of kos too!

A few moments that caught my attention:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W After move 37: white to respond to the marked stone $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X O O . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This is a type of move I find difficult to play! I feel as though I want to move out into the centre and develop on a large scale. But here, KataGo comes up with a honte play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Just be patient $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X O O . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

My local installation of KataGo (using a lot less playouts than Maharani) says a is about as good as

.

Move 48: I'm surprised white can get away with tenuki here! (Actually, KataGo flags the game move as one of several equally good options.) Don't you need to defend those white stones at the bottom? See what happens to them later in the game ... and how much difference it makes to the final result. Likewise the tenuki at move 72 surprised me.

Move 73: I know you're supposed to attack from a distance, not too close, but this is really something!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Black wants to attack the marked stone $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . | $$ | . O O . . . O . . . . . X X O X . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . | $$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . | $$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . . . O X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Attack from a distance! How much distance? $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . | $$ | . O O . . . O . . . . . X X O X . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . | $$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . | $$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . . . O X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Move 87: They say don't peep where you can cut. How about peeping where you can't even peep?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Black to "attack" the marked stones $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . | $$ | . O O . . . O . . O . . X X O X . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . W . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . W . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . W X . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . | $$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . | $$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . . . O X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . | $$ | . O O . . . O . . O . . X X O X . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . 2 . . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . 1 a . X . X . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . | $$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . | $$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . . . O X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

The move at

doesn't actually threaten to cut anything at all! Which is why doesn't need to reply at a. But

is still a key shape point, and still a good move.

(Edit: OK, black can cut off something. See Knotwilg's post below.)

Move 99: you might expect black to chase the weak white stones, or perhaps try a leaning attack here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Black to move: a, b, or c? $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . | $$ | . O O . . . O . . O . . X X O X . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . X . . X . X . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . | $$ | . . . . O a b c . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . | $$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . | $$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . X O O X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O X O . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Surprise! $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . | $$ | . O O . . . O . . O . . X X O X . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . X . . X . X . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . 1 . . . . . . . . O X . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . | $$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . | $$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . X O O X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O X O . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This causes all sorts of trouble later on...

Move 102: Another surprise tenuki.

Move 113: To me this looks like a loss-making ko threat. How about a monkey jump instead? But actually this move causes a lot of trouble for white later in the game.

The position after white 126:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Black to move. Who is winning? $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . O X O . . . . . . . X O O O . . . | $$ | X O O X O . O . . O . O X X O X . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . O . O . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . O . . . . . X . . X . X . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . X . X . . O X . O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . O . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . | $$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . | $$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . X O O X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O X O . O X . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Here it looks to me like the white stones at the bottom are totally dead, and black is just way ahead. Seeing how the endgame evolves is a great lesson in exploiting black's thinness and the aji of white's captured stones. The sequence of moves starting from 134 is just beautiful, and there's plenty more to come.

White 154: Looks like an ambitious way to defend the top. Wouldn't you fall back a space to be safe? No, the game is too close for any slack moves.

White 164 just made no sense to me at first glance. After going through a lot of variations with KataGo saying "no, that one doesn't work", I figured out that this innocent looking move actually affects the life and death status of black's top left stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Not such an innocent move $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ | . . O X O . . . . . O X X O O O X O . | $$ | X O O X O . O . . O . O X X O X O O . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . O O X X X X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | c . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O . X O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . X X d d X . O O . O . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . O X . . . X X O . X . X . . | $$ | . O a O O . . X O . O X O . . . . . . | $$ | . . O b X . X O . O X . . O X . O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . X O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . X O O X . X . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . O O . X X X . X . . . X . X . . | $$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . | $$ | . X O X X O O X . O X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . X O O X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O X O . O X . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

If white does nothing, then black has a in reserve, threatening to cut something off. After white plays b, black has to be much more careful about eye space around c or the connection at d.

Move 168: A nice subtle ko threat! At first glance I thought it threatened to start another ko for connection to the centre bottom group. Actually there's a squeeze in there, no ko.

Move 171 was a nice tesuji, jumping in a line deeper than you might expect, and move 176 a nice indirect way to defend against a cut.

Move 191: here's where the New Zealand rules count! Under Chinese rules, the game could possibly end here with a triple ko.

Move 246: Looks like terrible shape! Actually it's a point better than the usual diagonal move, because it sets up a trap:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ +-------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | X O O X O . . . . . $$ | X O O X O . O . . O $$ | . X X O . . . . . O $$ | . X O O . . . . . . $$ | . . X O . . . . . . $$ | . a X O . . O O . X $$ | . . . X X X X X O O $$ | X X X . . O X . . O $$ | X O O O O O O X O O $$ | O . O O X . X O . O[/go]

In the game, black defended at a. If black tenukis instead, what can white do?

Thanks again for posting these fascinating games! Even I don't get time to post my comments every time, I'm enjoying the ones that I manage to look at. Please keep going with this

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:14 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . | $$ | . O O . . . O . . O . . X X O X . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . O X . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . b O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . O 3 5 . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . 1 a 4 X . X . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . O O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . | $$ | . O O O X X X O . O X . X . . . O O . | $$ | . X O X X O O . . O X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X X . X O . . . O X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Maharani · Post by **Maharani** » Sun Jan 14, 2024 9:22 pm

xela, thank you so much for your comments!!

And knotwilg too for your elaboration!

xela wrote:Sorry I'm not able to keep up with the pace and review every game here.

Oh, come on. You tell me this even though I took exactly a year's break between games 103 and 104...?

Out of curiosity, what do you make of the bizarre "joseki" sequence from move 8 to 17?

xela wrote:Thanks again for posting these fascinating games! Even I don't get time to post my comments every time, I'm enjoying the ones that I manage to look at. Please keep going with this

Thank you so much, I will!

I'm up to game 141 by now. The one-year break of posting here was just because of this forum's bug with uploading .sgfs. I've been waiting for ZBaduk to implement a new KataGo net before I continue. All the games since game 82 in July 2022 have been using the same 60b network, whose fuseki potential I think I've exhausted by now.

Maharani · Post by **Maharani** » Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:44 pm

Game 111 (7 komi, NZ rules) is a fighting game that results in a draw after only 224 moves. https://online-go.com/review/1017234

Tang Jie, CHN 5d has reviewed this game! I’ve included all of his (commented) variations, plus more KataGo variations, in the OGS review.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Game 127 will continue at a instead of F16. $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . B . . . . . . . a . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

.sgf:

xela · Post by **xela** » Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:05 pm

Maharani wrote:
xela wrote:Sorry I'm not able to keep up with the pace and review every game here.
Oh, come on. You tell me this even though I took exactly a year's break between games 102 and 103...? :mrgreen:

Yes, well, real life gets in the way of my go addiction sometimes...

Maharani wrote:Out of curiosity, what do you make of the bizarre "joseki" sequence from move 8 to 17?

Right, I didn't comment on that because:

I thought it was part of the AlphaGo Teach starting position that you chose, not KataGo's choice of moves; and
It's way beyond my understanding :-)

But I can offer some thoughts:

Move 8 is new to me, but the shape gets about 30 hits in my GoGoD+go4go database. It's the sort of probe you'd expect once black has built a moyo, checking black's reaction before deciding whether to reduce or invade. And indeed in the database it generally happens between move 40 and 60, sometimes later and with other black stones in that quarter of the board. There were a couple of examples around move 22 or 23. But nothing as early as move 8!

I guess here, white is probing before choosing the joseki sequence in the lower left. And the diagonal move at white 18 is a little unusual. But the part that's beyond my understanding is the relationship between the joseki and the top right.

Trying some different sequences in KataGo:

If I force white 8 to be in the lower left, then it prefers C3 over C4.
After playing out moves 8-17, then KataGo does prefer C4 in the lower left, so what happened at the top right makes a difference
If I leave the top right untouched, play out the lower left as in the game, then put white O18 on the board and ask KataGo for the best replies, the next two moves are the same as in the game, but after that it wants black to atari on top at P16 instead of capturing at N18.

All very mysterious to me.

Maharani · Post by **Maharani** » Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:19 pm

Thank you, super fascinating!!

As a side note, I haven't explored any AGT positions for two years (25 games with CHN rules and 7.5 komi). All of the 141 games played with NZ rules and 7 komi are native KataGo games.

Maharani · Post by **Maharani** » Tue Jan 16, 2024 1:16 pm

Game 112 (7 komi, NZ rules) sees white exploring some mysterious aji in black's bottom right corner. Move 93 is a signature KataGo move, with black beginning to make sabaki in white's sketched-out moyo. By move 154, white is firmly 2 points ahead, causing black to lose his will to live and lose by at least 12 points thirty moves later. https://online-go.com/review/1019740

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Game 123 will continue at a instead of P2. $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

.sgf:

Life In 19x19

KataGo self-play games + video reviews

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Re: KataGo self-play games + video reviews

Re: KataGo self-play games + video reviews

Re: KataGo self-play games + video reviews

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Re: KataGo self-play games + video reviews

Re: KataGo self-play games + video reviews

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games