63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

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Kerby
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by Kerby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm50 Move 50 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . 1 O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Wow I am too happy with this trade :)
"You always have more ko threats then me" -Dusk Eagle
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Numsgil
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Move 51 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Okay, so he did the obvious thing and took the stone. Which is good. Means I made the last move basically for free. And it's still staring down into white's moyo.

Still need to make a move to fortify the 3-3 in the top right corner, but since my last move here isn't threatening anything it's gote and if I were white I wouldn't burn sente to make a ko for the top right corner.

There's also still a cut for me in the top at G15. And a pincer at K4 or thereabouts looks pretty big, too. After that I think we might be heading in to the endgame. There really aren't many weak groups on the board. We've both been playing really solidly (maybe even passively?)

I did a quick estimate of the score and I think it's pretty close. Definitely not enough to break my 40 point reverse komi. I'll do a proper count either when I need to decide between an invasion or reduction, or when the endgame starts.
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Kerby
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by Kerby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm52 Move 52 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Endgame already, sigh
"You always have more ko threats then me" -Dusk Eagle
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm53 Move 53 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Ah, finally white decides to try something that can lead to fighting.

I don't know all the variations for probes like this. But I'm pretty sure I have to decide between outside influence or inside territory. It isn't usually outright killable. If I force him to live in the corner I don't really get any good compensation, since white has a very stable group along the right edge. So I think I'm much better off taking the corner.

Plus, the hane is usually the correct move against a lone stone attachment. Plus, a hane on the inside forms good shape.


Tactics and Variations
I'm trying to avoid all the diagrams I posted in my last Malkovich, since no one (my future self included) seems to care, but I think this deserves some thought.

Anyway, this seems like the most likely line of play to me. Maybe there's a better way for black to play, though? But I'd be happy enough with this result.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 3 7 . . |
$$ X . . . X . 2 1 6 . |
$$ , . . . . 5 X O . . |
$$ X . . . . . 4 . 8 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X X . O . . . |[/go]


Something like this is white playing very aggressively, but I don't think it works very well. Basically white can set up a multi step ko, which if he manages to win means my top moyo is reduced by quite a bit. But that also means I get moves elsewhere on the board and probably make more than adequate compensation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ X . . . X 5 2 1 . . |
$$ , . . . 7 4 X O . . |
$$ X . . . 8 9 6 . . . |
$$ . . . . . 0 . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X X . O . . . |[/go]


White could also try playing lightly, just leaving the stone as a forcing move or placing a few stones around the area, but since he has a strong position on the right edge I think he's better off pushing his advantage here and making territory.
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Kerby
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by Kerby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm54 Move 54 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My planned sequence:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . . X W 4 . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . 1 2 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . 8 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . 1 X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This way I protect my cut on the top and solidify some territory on the right with options of pushing into his upper right moyo. I fear if I do things more normally I might get more territory on the side, but the cut at the top would be his 20ish points to take. I feel taking a less on the side is worth keeping the 2 stones on the top.
"You always have more ko threats then me" -Dusk Eagle
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amnal
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by amnal »

Kerby wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm54 Move 54 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My planned sequence:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . . X W 4 . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . 1 2 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . 8 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . 1 X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This way I protect my cut on the top and solidify some territory on the right with options of pushing into his upper right moyo. I fear if I do things more normally I might get more territory on the side, but the cut at the top would be his 20ish points to take. I feel taking a less on the side is worth keeping the 2 stones on the top.


This seems an unnecessarily helpful and complex way of making a small jump from white's stones on the right.


[/hide]
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Numsgil
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm55 Move 55 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . 1 X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Yeah, this is the sort of thing where I tend to make tactical errors and over extend myself. I'm consciously playing the safest move I can see that still gives me a strong bit of territory.


Tactics and Variations
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X . b X c . |
$$ . . . a X O d . |
$$ . . . . O e . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]


'a' is a contact move that strengthens the weakest stone in the area. Very bread and butter.
'b' is a contact move that forms a large stable group. It invites white to secure himself at 'e'. I don't like it because it looks overconcentrated with the existing stone at O17.
'c' wants to grab the corner. But then white can either hane at 'a' or 'b' and cause some complicated fighting, which I would probably be at a disadvantage in.
'd' tries to grab an even larger corner. But that's just silly since it forces white to strengthen himself. So really it's a "thankyou" move.
'e' is very aggressive, and starts a complex battle. Again, I feel like I would be at a disadvantage on the board in a fight like this, just based on counting liberties of each player's groups. White extends downwards and I have two groups with only two liberties, while white has one group with two and one group with three. Plus white is probably the stronger tactical fighter, so don't tempt fate, yeah?

Taking these 5 moves as my base instinct (no other moves percolate to the top of my conscious thought), we can knock away some of them using heuristics. From contact fight rules, the stone at Q16 is the weakest (fewest liberties), so needs the most urgent defense. So that knocks out 'c' and 'd'.

So the only real choice is between 'a', 'e', and 'b'. 'b' feels too solid and over concentrated, as I already mentioned. 'e' feels too loose, just asking for trouble and complications. So the nice goldilocks move is 'a'.
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dfan
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by dfan »

I don't know if this is fair, but the thing I don't like about this move is that if you were Black and had two free moves to play in this position:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . . . b . . X . . |
$$ . , . . . . a X O . . |
$$ . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

would you put them at a and b? I feel like each of those stones makes the other one kind of redundant.

I haven't done any reading but my instinct would be to crosscut or make the solid connection at Q17.
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Magicwand
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by Magicwand »

dfan wrote:
I don't know if this is fair, but the thing I don't like about this move is that if you were Black and had two free moves to play in this position:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . . . b . . X . . |
$$ . , . . . . a X O . . |
$$ . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

would you put them at a and b? I feel like each of those stones makes the other one kind of redundant.

I haven't done any reading but my instinct would be to crosscut or make the solid connection at Q17.

my personal opinion on black's move : it is a solid move. is it an example of overconcentration? maybe but i can see the merit and it should be labeled as a solid move.
edit: i am not saying that is is an optimal move. probably not..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ . , . . . . B X O . . |
$$ . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by Kerby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm56 Move 56 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, almost as planned
"You always have more ko threats then me" -Dusk Eagle
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57 Move 57 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
White's treating those stones lightly, and trying to protect the cut at G15 and enlarge his moyo. But it's gote, and it doesn't do a great job of either. And other than the sorta shapeless stones in the center, I don't have any real weaknesses for white to exploit. I have free reign to move wherever I like, really.


Counting and Scoring
Alright, let's see where the score stands. For simplicity's sake, let's treat moyos as solid territory.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm56 Move 56 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . b . . . b . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . X b . . . b . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | b X b . . b . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O w . b . . b b X X O w w |
$$ | w w O O O O . w . X b b . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . w O . . . . . . w . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . w . . . . . . . . w . . . |
$$ | . . . . . w . . . . . . . . . w . . . |
$$ | . . . . w . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . w . . d a m e . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . w . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O w . . . . . . . . X . w . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . w . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . w . O w w w |
$$ | b X O , X . . O w w w w w O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . b . . w . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . w . . . . . O X . X b b |
$$ | . . . . b . . w . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black:

Lower right corner: 5
Lower left corner: 15
Top right: 25
Top left: 10

Total: 55

White:
Bottom: 15
Right: 40
Left side: 30

Total: 85

So if white gets everything he wants right now, he's winning on the board, and even with reverse komi it'd be a close game. Unacceptable.

But! I have sente. So give me 15 points, as a round number benefit of sente. Now it's 70 to 85. Still white's winning on the board. Which means white is asking for too much. White is not solid territory yet at all. Which usually means an invasion is called for. I'm terrible at proper invasions deep inside a moyo, but attacking invasions with nearby stones for backup seems manageable.


Tactics and Variations
Reductions keep sente. Invasions lose sente. White has three moyos.

Let's examine weak spots for reductions and/or invasions:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . b b . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . b b . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


'a' attacks white's light stones with an attacking invasion/reduction (it's right on the line between the two, and it's a shallow moyo, so hard to say which it is). So it not only reduces the moyo, but threatens to swallow up white's stones here in a big way. If I do kill those white stones, I should expect to do so in gote.

Any of the 'b's are also attacking invasions. They seek to isolate the lone white stone, which will limit the bottom moyo. The danger is that white might be able to enlarge the left side moyo if I'm not careful. If I'm careful, I run the weak group all through white's moyo and make crazy profit.

'c' is a light reduction right on the moyo boundary. I would expect to keep sente with such a move. If white ignores, I start diving even deeper into his moyo and suddenly white's moyo has become very flat, with his east-west wall very over-concentrated.

...

Given the three moves, I chose 'a' because it also doubles as an attack on a weak group that I can maybe even kill outright. 'c' might not be as sente as I'd like, and I'm concerned that if white ignores it to take another big point I don't have a compelling sente followup. Two big black gote moves in a row seem manageable for white.

'b's are tempting, but it's hard to see where the profit from the attack would come from. It is running a weak group in to a moyo, though, so in the hands of a skilled player, no doubt it would be a devastating attack. But 'a' seems more straightforward as far as profit and ways in which white might follow up.

Which ways am I expecting white to respond? He's going to be might tempted to peek through the elephant's eye weakness, but that doesn't end well I don't think:

eg:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . X . . |
$$ . . e d X X O . . |
$$ . . c b 0 O a . . |
$$ . . 5 7 8 9 . . . |
$$ . . . 6 3 1 . . . |
$$ . . . 4 2 . . . . |
$$ . . X X . O . . . |
$$ . . X O O , . . . |
$$ . . X . . . . . . |[/go]


More Tactics and Variations
The cut at G15 might still work, or it might not. I've tried reading it out a few ways. It's definitely not obvious to me. But even if it does work, it mostly just forces white to build up a solid wall for his moyo in sente with minimal losses. So it's not a great move to make regardless. It is some aji, though, that I can try and exploit later. Something to keep in mind.
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by Kerby »

Hey Nums, There is no way I'll be ahead on the board by 40 pts. If you want to keep playing I'd love to finish the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 Move 58 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . 6 4 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . 4 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , 5 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I get a sente reduction in the bottom right corner:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , 1 3 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . 5 . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , 1 4 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X 3 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 6 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I feel I will be ahead on the board in the end, but definitely not by 40pts more like 10-15.
"You always have more ko threats then me" -Dusk Eagle
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by Numsgil »

I'll move a bit later tonight.

In the mean time:
Strategy and Thoughts
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 Move 59 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hey Kerby:

Hey Nums, There is no way I'll be ahead on the board by 40 pts. If you want to keep playing I'd love to finish the game.


Yeah, by all means lets keep going. I'm not sure how you want to handle komi, but whatever you think is fair. Well, not too fair :)

Strategy and Thoughts
Kerby's no doubt frustrated that I wasn't making mistakes, but this is exactly the time where I would expect myself to make a mistake. Everything up to here is exactly the sort of go I'm good at. Contact fights are where things turn grim.

The hope here is to outright kill off the isolated two white stones and capture the entire corner in the process.


Tactics and Variations
There are a half dozen moves that look playable to me here, but I can limit it to two using two fundamental rules:

1. Respond to contact moves with a contact move
2. The hane is preferable to the extension if your opponent doesn't have more liberties and/or if you can get away with it.

So:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ -----------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . X . . |
$$ . . . . X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . a . . |
$$ . . . . . X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . b . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X X . O . . . |
$$ . . X O O , . . . |
$$ . . X . . . . . . |[/go]


One reading of 'a':
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ -----------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . X . . |
$$ . . . . X X O 4 . |
$$ . . . . 7 O 3 8 . |
$$ . . . . 5 2 1 6 . |
$$ . . . . . X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X X . O . . . |
$$ . . X O O , . . . |
$$ . . X . . . . . . |[/go]


I don't think white's going to play like that, but other moves for white seem worse off. We'll see what he comes up with. I also need to read out if I can descend with 3 instead of cutting.

'b' seems weird. Why play 'b' if I almost have to play 'a' right after? Seems like a very kyu-ish line of play.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ -----------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . X . . |
$$ . . . . X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . 5 3 . . |
$$ . . . . . X O 4 . |
$$ . . . . . 2 1 . . |
$$ . . X X . O . 6 . |
$$ . . X O O , . . . |
$$ . . X . . . . . . |[/go]
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Kerby
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Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)

Post by Kerby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 Move 60 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hey Nums, Its your win, but it would be nice to play it out to the end and see what the score on the board ends up being.

Next on the agenda, the bottom right. Then I have to figure out what is worth most out of a few different options.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . e . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O c . . . . . 2 X f . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . d , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . 7 . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . b . . . O O , 3 6 . |
$$ | . . X . . a . . . . . . O . O X 5 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 8 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"You always have more ko threats then me" -Dusk Eagle
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