Prokovich game

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:23 am

I disagree that black's biggest priority is to keep those two white stones dead. I think the more black focuses on keeping them dead, the more and more overconcentrated he gets. Plus, :w1:

below looks terrible for black based on my reading.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . 1 X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . B . O B . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O B B . . O . B B O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O B . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I'd play here instead. It also seems to support an invasion into the marked area.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . C . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . C . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . C . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . 1 X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:44 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm35 ACTUAL GAME: Move 35 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O 1 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:19 pm

I stand by what I said earlier.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . 2 X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . 1 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe

is just to make white connect by playing at 'a' below instead of at 'b', which is what white could do without the :b35:

exchange.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm35 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O b X a O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . 2 O 1 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Random thought: cut first?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . 1 X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X 2 O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . 3 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

plankton · Post by **plankton** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:30 pm

It looks like a hard fight to me.
If each side adopts the least compromising stance, I think it will go like this.
B can't use a keima at move 41 because even though B gets thick, W ends up with too many points.

W wants to avoid a ko lacking local threats cause the ko threat at 'a' is so huge

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm36 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . 0 9 . . . . . . . . O a . . | $$ | . . . . . 8 7 . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . 6 3 X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X 4 O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X 2 O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . 5 . 1 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think both groups will end up living but i dont know who ends up better.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm46 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X O 6 . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O 4 5 . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . X O X 3 . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X X O X 7 8 O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O 9 X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . 2 O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

That was looking at the most severe sequences. I think it is possible that the players will try for something more peaceful. But I feel like a peaceful solution will favor W.

plankton · Post by **plankton** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:03 am

I think i have a better sequence here.
This way W makes life right away and lets B worry about what to do about the marked stones.
Either way W will be able to reinforce the left side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm36 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . B . O X 2 . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O B B . . O 1 X 4 O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . 5 . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . 4 3 . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X 1 O X X . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O O X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . 2 O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:45 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm36 ACTUAL GAME: Move 36 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . 1 X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:34 pm

Although they have not exchanged 'a' for 'b' as I expected, my previous prediction still is that black must cut at G4 in response to white's G5. The fight looks better for white, but black cannot concede it without fighting. Anything else would suggest that certain anatomical parts are underdeveloped or missing.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm36 Move 37 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . 1 X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X 2 O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X b O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . a O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:19 pm

Joaz Banbeck wrote:Anything else would suggest that certain anatomical parts are underdeveloped or missing.

It's extremely rude to call someone brainless. But I agree that there's no way around the cut.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:56 pm

hyperpape wrote:It's extremely rude to call someone brainless. ...

I agree. That's why I don't do it.

plankton · Post by **plankton** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:53 pm

<Sorry, plankton. I had to edit this.>

plankton · Post by **plankton** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:19 pm

Please admit that it was an extremely conservative decision to edit my post.

:mad:

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:59 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm37 ACTUAL GAME: Move 37 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:08 am

This professional lacks pinkies!

Anyway, I guess the assumption is that this move is forcing. But I'm not sure I see it--I'd try and swallow the Black stones, then try and make sabaki as white.

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:32 am

Unless this is some type of ladder-breaker that I don't see, I think white will answer this kikashi. Otherwise black's area on top-left seems to grow too large while white's area on the bottom-left shrinks away.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X 1 O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My guess as to how this will go:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O 1 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X 4 O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:03 am

hyperpape wrote:This professional lacks pinkies!...

Yeah, that causes the stones to slip out of his hand fall in the wrong place. That is the only explanation that I can find for D9.

Life In 19x19

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