Starcraft II

[Solomon]

I suppose the protoss, like black, has been playing a passive game and has taken what he thinks is a a big point (teched to void rays) without any consideration to white's plan (we can see he that he hasn't scouted) or how his move can be easily rendered useless by a good player.

Or something like that :p.

Indeed, and I think there are multiple ways of interpreting it too so it'd be interesting to see what other people think of the comparison.

On another note, it looks like people are finally starting to tap into the power of blink; this video really shows how, with knowledge of map terrain and a handy observer, blink stalkers can be amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LikNogqHxo#t=6m48s

[MountainGo]

On another note, it looks like people are finally starting to tap into the power of blink; this video really shows how, with knowledge of map terrain and a handy observer, blink stalkers can be amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LikNogqHxo#t=6m48s

Whenever I see someone discover some new technique like that, I get goosebumps. I'm so glad I play Starcraft.

I would liken excessive static defense to slow play in go. Both dedicate too many resources (moves or minerals) to defending from potential attacks and not enough to actually winning by getting more territory.

[Solomon]

There was some discussion about the 6 pool earlier. I know some people might think it's something that will only work in the lower leagues, but if the opponent plays the wrong opening it can work at the highest level. Here is an example where HuK, arguably one of the best Protoss players in the world, lost a match in a tournament recently to a 6 pool for that very reason: http://glhf.blip.tv/file/4083578/

And I also like how oblivious the commentators were to the 6-pool...-__-.

[MountainGo]

And I also like how oblivious the commentators were to the 6-pool...-__-.

I'll never understand why commentators don't talk more about the build each player is using. I don't want to see the stupid scouting worker walking across the map! Tell me about the ^&(*ing builds, their strengths, weaknesses, etc. You know, the actual game!

Wow, now that I've watched that video to the end, I can't believe how oblivious those commentators were. They saw the Pool, saw only six Drones, and all they could say was a comment about how the Extractor was delayed. Even when the six lings hatched and HuK didn't even have his first Gateway finished, they acted like nothing special was going on. And then when the lings destroyed the Pylon, it was "OH MY GOD I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING". I'll have to avoid those commentators in the future...

[Tooveli]

Here is an example where HuK, arguably one of the best Protoss players in the world, lost a match in a tournament recently to a 6 pool for that very reason: http://glhf.blip.tv/file/4083578/

I saw the game as it happened. I thought it was quite interesting. HuK resigned pretty quickly, it was kind of like saying 'yeah you're right, my build can't deal with that.' It made it seem like a valid part of the game. Not something to try every match, but if you're up against an opponent who is fond of fast expanding, then it might be a good idea. I guess the real problem is that you can't scout before deciding to 6-pool, so it can only be used with high metagame considerations. It was interesting to watch the second game in context of the first.

I agree the commentators are awful. They also have an annoying habit of rotating the camera during battles. I find myself shouting at them sometimes - "Move the camera! There's a battle or a drop going on" and 20secs later they say "I guess there was a battle down there". Or, another common phrase "Wow - how long has he had that ghost acadamy/templar archive/ultralisk den/....".

Seems the run of good manners and no serious cheese has come to an end. I've still not been 6-pooled, but I got 7-pooled in a Random v Random on Lost Temple. It was pretty funny because I was terran and happened to scout it early. I just built an early second supply depot to wall off and the lings gave up when they saw a wall-off with a marine behind. I won the game a minute or two later due to having an army.

I also got cannon rushed in PvP. grrrr. I was so inept at dealing with it. Having not had it happen to me before I did something incredibly stupid. I scouted a pylon in my base due to him moving his scout off in an odd direction really early. I'd seen only a gateway in his base and no forge and I just thought, well it'll be ages before he gets warp-tech, I'll kill the pylon later. It was surrounded by cannons later

[fwiffo]

I know I ragged on BigT earlier in the thread, but compared to some of these commentators, he's a freaking shining star. He would at least *notice* a 6-pool.

[fwiffo]

OK, the BM is almost driving me away from playing ladder games at this point. On scrap station, I had clearly beaten this Terran, but he turtled on the island with a billion missle turrets just to make the game last forever. In fact, most of the BM players are terrans, and an awful lot just try to fly off their buildings to nowhere when they've lost.

Then today I got cannon rushed again, and the guy was like "HAHA, OWNED!" I mean, I've been cannon rushed before, but I'd never seen somebody so proud of doing something so lame. So I said "Congratulations, you beat a lowly silver player with a cannon rush. What are you, 8?" And he actually said, "hahaha no im 9. why?". And based on how the conversation went from there, I'm pretty sure he really was 9. He kept sending me stupid messages after the game, so I eventually had to block him.

I don't know if Zerg players are BM. I actually haven't seen one in my last 25 games. I'm thinking of switching before they go extinct.

[schilds]

Sounds like he just wanted a friend!

[fwiffo]

He's gotta work on his social skills then. I had a line saved up for the next person who was so BM that I had to block them -- "Sorry, I can't talk to you any more. My parole officer doesn't want me chatting with 10-year-olds online anymore." But in this case, since it was an actual 9-year-old, I don't think it was a good idea.

[Solomon]

Ay, yeah I've got my fair share of bad BM stories too (including the one I posted here lol). It gets better in the higher leagues from what I've seen, but it's still not a rarity...I'd say 1 out of every 10 games involves BM or rage in some way, which I'll never understand...Protoss seems to be the race right now that's in the middle that very little are complaining about...lot of heat's on Terran being too strong and Zerg being too weak:



Though I will admit, Void Rays and Collosis are probably just as rage-inducing to the people I play as Marauders and Reapers are to me .

[MountainGo]

OK, the BM is almost driving me away from playing ladder games at this point.

Noooo! Please don't give up. Just ask yourself this question: In real life, would you be bothered by a little kid insulting you? You would just laugh it off and continue with your day, right? So just try to remember who the person is on the other side. Sometimes if I start to feel frustrated at a loss while my opponent BMs, I force myself to type them a friendly message like "You have bested me, sir!" I find that it relieves the tension of the situation, because it completely removes me from the desire to "win" the conversation. Recently I lost to a Terran on Lost Temple because he moved everything to an island and lined the perimeter with Turrets. Unfortunately it didn't really occur to me that he would be able to use the income to get a serious army crammed together in there, and when I sent in my fleet of Overlords to drop my army of Roaches and Hydras (not helped out by the fact that I kept messing up the drop controls), he just killed everything. Soon afterwards a fleet of cloaked Banshees destroyed all my Hatcheries, and I didn't have enough minerals to rebuild one. Tough beat, especially since the game was about 45 minutes, but I knew I deserved the loss. It's not like I had lag issues or anything. He won fairly within the rules of the game. So I said "damn, well played, gg" and left. Then I made a note in my SC2 notebook about what to do the next time someone uses that strategy. So I learned from the experience, which is the most important thing, right?

I don't know if Zerg players are BM. I actually haven't seen one in my last 25 games. I'm thinking of switching before they go extinct.

Zerg is played by about 1 in 4 people at higher levels right now. Whenever I watch a ZvT or ZvP match, I always root for Zerg. I guess it has the underdog appeal since so many people say it's weak. I see it as the "advanced" race since it gives you more choices, so it rewards skill (and punishes lack thereof).

[fwiffo]

That's the exact analogy I was thinking of (though unless you meant to say Zerg is OP, you've got the colors backwards). Just because black can sometimes win a chess game between two similarly skilled players, doesn't mean white doesn't have an advantage.

Here's another thing bugging me - take a look at this PvP replay on Scrap Station from my opponent's camera and tell me he's not using a maphack.

[Solomon]

That's the exact analogy I was thinking of (though unless you meant to say Zerg is OP, you've got the colors backwards). Just because black can sometimes win a chess game between two similarly skilled players, doesn't mean white doesn't have an advantage.

Here's another thing bugging me - take a look at this PvP replay on Scrap Station from my opponent's camera and tell me he's not using a maphack.

Nah, Zerg definitely not OP...in fact sometimes I sympathize for them when I see some of the higher-level ZvTs.

And I watched that replay; 99% sure your opponent is maphacking. It's unfortunate, but a quick google search will bring up legitimate results. If you didn't know, Blizzard basically handles it by launching waves of account bans every certain periods of time and announce it. I'm not sure if it's the ideal way of handling the situation, but the tears that are shed by hack users on the forums taste very delicious . Getting paired up with a maphacker sucks, but you can look at it positively in several ways: 1) You still won, and more importantly 2) at least you have a shot against a maphacker, no one can win against a drophack user.

[fwiffo]

Yeah, I actually felt really good about that game because I executed in all the things I wanted to do. My macro was good, I scouted and made good use of the scouting information (getting a second observer to deal with the DTs). And after the first encounter went my way, I expanded and teched-up while applying pressure.

I was pretty disappointed to see how poorly my opponent was playing. He sat for a full 1:20 game time staring into open space while his minerals piled up over 1300. And he didn't seem to make use of the scouting information he got (though my go experience lends me to not try for "surprise" tactics).

I'm going to look for maphackers in replays in the future, cause I bet it's pretty common.

[DeadTired]

Poor zerg. I tried a few games as random, and got fed up fighting the terrans. Then one time I get matched against a zerg player, my `random' turns out to be `terran'... Well, at least I could try copying what my previous opponent just did to me. (I won, but both of us made some really terrible mistakes judging from replay --- I'm a total noob at this.)