25. mic (9k) vs. POGO (10k)

User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by topazg »

schultz wrote:So what is the better play in this situation, then? This is some thing I don't feel bad about playing, though my opening is very weak (some thing I've been trying to work on--and thus the question ;)).


Loose rule of thumb is jump the number of stones in your wall + 1. So from 1 stone, a two point jump, 2 stones, a 3 point jump etc. The rule is designed primarily IIRC for 3rd line plays, but it's a useful guideline.

Frankly, I doubt the over concentration in shape is going to make any difference to a game at this level anyway :P
User avatar
Numsgil
Lives in gote
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:07 am
Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Numsgil
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by Numsgil »

schultz wrote:Looking forward to following this game. Thanks to both of you for participating. :)

Dusk Eagle wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 3 . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w4: would be overconcentrated. With a two stone wall, white must go one space farther.

In general, this kick - whether from a 3-4 or 4-4 - is bad unless white is already being pincered here.

Anyway, I'll unhide this comment at some point in the future so mic can learn from it.

So what is the better play in this situation, then? This is some thing I don't feel bad about playing, though my opening is very weak (some thing I've been trying to work on--and thus the question ;)).


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 3 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . X . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I believe this odd looking joseki is the preferred reaction. At least locally. My guess is that in a professional game you wouldn't see this joseki emerge just yet when there's still an open corner, though. Black has good influence on the right and has cramped white's star stone on the left, so I think black comes out ahead.
Last edited by Numsgil on Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
mic
Lives with ko
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:24 am
Rank: 6k KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: mic
Location: Kassel, Germany
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 6 times
Contact:

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by mic »

Hi everybody,

just wanted to mention that I can now really understand wms's comment about being paranoid and curious what all the people post :)

- Mic
Go is easy: don't play bad moves.
User avatar
Chew Terr
Gosei
Posts: 2060
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:45 pm
Rank: KGS 3k
GD Posts: 264
KGS: Chew
Location: Texas
Has thanked: 546 times
Been thanked: 172 times
Contact:

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by Chew Terr »

mic wrote:just wanted to mention that I can now really understand wms's comment about being paranoid and curious what all the people post :)
- Mic


Heh, I feel your pain =)
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
User avatar
POGO
Lives with ko
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:47 am
Rank: KGS 9k
GD Posts: 98
KGS: Prophet19
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by POGO »

sorry for the long reply (im on my psp) im currently on the road til tomarrow so i should be able to post my move then.
The unoffical Corndog Of Lifein19x19.
Please,Do not microwave for more then 60 second's as screaming will acure.
User avatar
POGO
Lives with ko
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:47 am
Rank: KGS 9k
GD Posts: 98
KGS: Prophet19
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by POGO »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , W . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


not much thought here, this is my normal responce.

that and im on a bus >.<
The unoffical Corndog Of Lifein19x19.
Please,Do not microwave for more then 60 second's as screaming will acure.
User avatar
mic
Lives with ko
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:24 am
Rank: 6k KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: mic
Location: Kassel, Germany
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 6 times
Contact:

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by mic »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O B . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is what I expect. A stone at a would probably work better now. I'm curious, where White would play afterwards: b, c or d (R5 is still weak).

I think it's quite important that I gain sente again...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 X . . 5 . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O 1 . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . , . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Go is easy: don't play bad moves.
User avatar
Aphelion
Lives in sente
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:14 pm
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by Aphelion »

not much thought here, this is my normal responce.

that and im on a bus >.<


If white reexamined the merits of just these two statements after the game, he'd probably gain 2 stones.
Hummingbird Cyborg
Dies in gote
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:59 pm
Rank: 4kyu
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by Hummingbird Cyborg »

POGO wrote:
not much thought here, this is my normal responce.

that and im on a bus >.<

I don't like this move much.

White isn't building a significant moyo such that he gains more than black by strengthening black in a situation like this.

In fact, black's top is going to look much better than it did before.
User avatar
fwiffo
Gosei
Posts: 1435
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:22 am
Rank: Out of practice
GD Posts: 1104
KGS: fwiffo
Location: California
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 168 times

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by fwiffo »

Aphelion wrote:
not much thought here, this is my normal responce.

that and im on a bus >.<


If white reexamined the merits of just these two statements after the game, he'd probably gain 2 stones.

Nothing wrong with taking the bus. For several months, that's how I got to go club.
User avatar
Aphelion
Lives in sente
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:14 pm
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by Aphelion »

fwiffo wrote:
Aphelion wrote:
not much thought here, this is my normal responce.

that and im on a bus >.<


If white reexamined the merits of just these two statements after the game, he'd probably gain 2 stones.

Nothing wrong with taking the bus. For several months, that's how I got to go club.


Should clarify, I meant these two statements:

1. not much thought here,

2.this is my normal responce.

Nothing wrong with taking the bus obviously :)
User avatar
POGO
Lives with ko
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:47 am
Rank: KGS 9k
GD Posts: 98
KGS: Prophet19
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by POGO »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He will most likley want this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


of he does it this way ill will probably try for a more glodal scale.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


sorry bout the slow responces i just got a new labtop as my old one crashed one me
The unoffical Corndog Of Lifein19x19.
Please,Do not microwave for more then 60 second's as screaming will acure.
User avatar
mic
Lives with ko
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:24 am
Rank: 6k KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: mic
Location: Kassel, Germany
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 6 times
Contact:

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by mic »

Hi Pogo,

no Problem -- we are not in a hurry :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Go is easy: don't play bad moves.
User avatar
POGO
Lives with ko
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:47 am
Rank: KGS 9k
GD Posts: 98
KGS: Prophet19
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by POGO »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Decided that my original move might have been to far.

here is what i think might happen locally
The unoffical Corndog Of Lifein19x19.
Please,Do not microwave for more then 60 second's as screaming will acure.
User avatar
mic
Lives with ko
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:24 am
Rank: 6k KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: mic
Location: Kassel, Germany
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 6 times
Contact:

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Post by mic »

Hello,

I have to think about this move, will answer soon.

I think this is not a joseki move -- since I don't know so many josekis, I am not sure how to punish it. Should I just take the corner? White looks a bit huge.
Go is easy: don't play bad moves.
Post Reply