September DDK Swiss

Aphelion · Post by **Aphelion** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:20 am

Thats not fair imo, Kietlhard should get a forfeit loss.

iambadatgo · Post by **iambadatgo** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:15 am

Aphelion wrote:Thats not fair imo, Kietlhard should get a forfeit loss.

Give Keith 0 points, I agree. But what about Maere - .5, or 1?

nnk · Post by **nnk** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:26 pm

i agree. 0-1 is the logical way to go about it. the fact that the player didn't play to earn the 1 is offset by the fact that he didn't have two games to enjoy, imho, not to mention that it's definitely not the fault of the player who showed up, in any way. i also agree that if it happens twice, we should "rethink". but 0.5-0.5 (draw) doesn't seem fair at all

Maere · Post by **Maere** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:18 am

I'm the one who told SinK to make it a draw. Easy wins are no fun ;-)

I don't want to get a full point for not playing at all.

I have not heard of Kiethlard since then at all, but he might have a very good reason for not showing up, I have no idea. We'll see whether Kiethlard shows up next round or not. If not, well... he'll simply be eliminated.

Anyway, the point of this tournament is to have fun and arguing about things like that is no fun. So let's keep playing.

SinK · Post by **SinK** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:53 am

Complaints noted. If kiethlard doesn't have a good reason for not playing his match I'll change his score to zero. For the moment though carry on as normal. Since this round was delayed we'll say midnight on Friday is the deadline for this round.

Monadology · Post by **Monadology** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:29 am

Noodley and I just had our matches. Yet another double loss for me, though I feel more comfortable about these losses since the score difference is closer to the value of the four stone handicap I would have in an even game.

Stefany93 · Post by **Stefany93** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:24 pm

Hey,

Our games with Rafa has ended. That guy played really strong, and it a pure luck that I managed to win the two games. Here they are -

[sgf-full]http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=391[/sgf-full]

[sgf-full]http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=389[/sgf-full]

threeve · Post by **threeve** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:58 pm

SinK and I played our round 2 games today. 2-0 for myself. SinK played great and we had two very interesting and fun games.

Game 1:

Game 2: This game was a ton of fun, and I got away with one I probably shouldn't have. Huge thanks to Loons and Judicata for reviewing for us after the game, especially the huge fight that breaks out in the center.

nnk · Post by **nnk** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:41 pm

nnk vs maere, tentative schedule: 14/09/2010, 1000GMT-ish (not confirmed yet, but very likely). sorry for the vagueness

Maere · Post by **Maere** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:54 pm

nnk wrote:nnk vs maere, tentative schedule: 14/09/2010, 1000GMT-ish (not confirmed yet, but very likely). sorry for the vagueness

I confirm this ;-)

nnk · Post by **nnk** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:59 am

here are the games:

i felt chased like a common horse thieve

. i finally made one huge mistake (after many small ones), but it turned out we were both tired after the "chase", so the mistake was undone by maere's similar one. overall i felt the weaker player won this one, to be honest.

i think this one was a bit more "setled" than the first one. still i felt like maere knew what she was doing while i was just "poking around". reviews welcome, i feel i could learn a lot. thanks to Maere for the two "on the edge" games.

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:01 pm

With regards to the first NNK-Maere game, my humble suggestions:

8: Generally you want to play high if you're scared you'll have to run, if you're trying to build a framework, or to better balance with other stones of yours in the area. In this case, none of these are true, so I would play the stone low, so that you can better make a base on this side.
12: It is often a bad idea to make two weak groups near each other. This is because, if your opponent splits them, they can build strength while attacking one with which to kill the other.
35: This is encouraging your opponent to strengthen the weak group, which is already undercut and has no eyespace. If you want to attack this bottom group, L5 or L6 will threaten both of white's weak groups without making it defend itself as directly. You do end up taking territory from the attack, but you're crawling along the first line. Better to attack on a larger scale and either build huge central thickness or kill one of the two groups.
64: In this case, I would recommend capturing immediately at O18. You're choosing between giving your opponent a free atari at M17 (which he takes immediately) versus one at Q15. I think that the former is more detrimental to your growing territory, so I would deny it.
74: While this is certainly big, you might want to consider this option: your opponent is obviously trying to build a framework of territory on the right, so a cap at P10 will keep him low. Additionally, this is reasonably sente, since a followup atari at Q14 threatens to cut off stones. Looking ahead, you got close with move 80, but you can probably push all the way to P10.
98: Wrong side. An atari from P11 lets you push in and leaves less weak spots to get hurt.
117: I know you're afraid of white getting points here, but white's going to get some somewhere. Better to play S9, seal up your points, and not have to worry. As an alternative, the top left 3-3 invasion is still an option, to steal tons of points from your opponent.
121: Be careful, this pushes your opponent leftward and into your territory. Better to push from the left so you don't get cut in half.
122: This is safe, which is hard to argue with, but I'd say it's worth the risk to take C7, splitting your opponent's stones and hugely reducing territory.
169: Your opponent's last move was sente, because it reduced the liberties of H5. You need to play E8 to save your group, or else your opponent's throw-in there will kill. I think you figured this out later, but here is the point you have to defend.
240: You probably figured this out later, but this is self-atari. You can't play here until you play at E7.

Anyhow, these are just a few ideas. If you have any questions, let me know.

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:19 pm

For the second Maere-nnk game:
8: Very risky. I think jumping straight up from the corner would be more normal and safer. While it may turn out okay, know going into it that it's likely to start a fight.
15: I prefer O3, though it's kind of minor. This makes your stones stronger, gives white even more cutting points (by making O5 more severe), and makes it harder for white to close you in on that side. It's safe to play O3, since the two white stones don't have room to live.
26-27: Be aware that a throw-in by black at Q1 will kill those three white stones. If you're giving them up intentionally to take sente, that's okay, just know it's there.
28: This attachment is referred to as a 'kick', and is usually bad unless you already have a white stone around K16/17 to make the attack more severe. For this reason, it's often a good move in high handicap games (by black), but as it is, it lets black stabilize easily, and it leaves weakness at C17. As an aside, kicks can be good in other situations (for example, if black already had an extension, it could help overconcentrate him. But that's a whole different sort of situation.
63: You can't tenuki here. The shape you have was pushed into by white, so it's not surprising to know that white is halfway through a 'push and cut'. The cutting points at B8, B6, and C4 are too much to handle. I think connecting at C4 is the best way to fix as everything at once.
75: Since you know the ladder doesn't work for you, I wouldn't add this stone. Either play a ladder-breaker (to either save the laddered stone or get a free move by making your opponent capture) or just take sente and tenuki. R17 or F15 are nice places to take sente, or F13 might be a useful ladder breaker. For example, if you played F13 as a ladder breaker, then white took the laddered stone, F15 would combine to make all of those central white stones look cut off and scared.

All in all, it was an exciting game and you both played fairly well. I look forwards to seeing more games from ya'all!

nnk · Post by **nnk** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:38 pm

wow. thanks so much for the reviews, chew! very helpful indeed. i feel i'm one stone stronger now

(okay, maybe half a stone, one stone if i remember to apply all that in advance rather than reactively). thanks for the lesson

ps: it just occurred to me if i had used the [sgf-full] tags, you would have been able to do the comments inline instead, which would have been much more convenient for you and all eventual readers. sorry about that, i'll remember to do that next time

Maere · Post by **Maere** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:18 am

Thank you for the review, Chew :-)

In the first game I made many mistakes, but other mistakes on the part of my opponent allowed me to recover from them as the game went on. He was not so kind with me the second time.
nnk is a lot stronger than he thinks! I look forward to the next round.

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