Mike Novack wrote:nnk wrote:...... if you want to play a program, there are some bots on kgs (some "nice and weak"), and also "truly" free software for any platform, based on gnugo (linux, windows, probably mac too), but beware, gnugo is a bit too strong these days for a beginner........
If you want to use a program as an opponent to learn from:
a) You want one that is significantly stronger than you are so that you will get punished when you make a mistake (a human player your own strength might let you get away with bad habits). But the game is hopelessly distorted at handicaps > nine stones. In other words, you want the program to be playing in the range 9-3 stones stronger than yourself and then you take the appropriate handicap or a triffle less than adequate handicap.
Note: What you will be learning this way is "how to make use of stones already placed" but that is a rather significant part of what go is all about.
b) I don't know why people are so keen on "free" (as in "fee lunch" --- the orginal "free software" concept meant non-restictive licenses, not that the the software would be "no cost*"). Yes, it's always nice not to have to pay for something but nothing wrong with the more usual situation. Software engineers need to eat too! Sorry, in my experience only a very tiny fraction of the people who object to being asked to pay for software are in the habit of providing their own services to others gratis. In other words, it's not wrong/evil when somebody decides "I'll create this software for you but only if you pay me for it". You then get to decide whether you want it badly enough to pay for it.
* The original rallying cry was "software for the price of a book"
by truly free i mean open source, not free as in beer. i am generally not interested and avoiding "free" (non open source, but with 0 pricetag) software, the only exception in the past few years is the kgs client, and even that makes me unconfortable (for instance, i don't buy computers with nvidia video cards because i would be forced to use non-open source software to get them to work properly, this often costs me money, so i don't mind paying for software, even though indirectly in this case). in my experience, the vast majority of people who prefer commercial software (because "it is better") will not pay for it, my personal view of things is: if it's that good, pay whatever the price is, if not, find something which suits you better, either lower price, or free/open, but do not "steal". in my experience, the vast majority of "open source zealots" will share that view, and stand by it. so please don't pick up the stone before you are sure which way you are going to swing it.
further more, there are several examples already of companies making money from open source, so maybe things are not as black and white as some may think. in general, open source (and multi-platform) is good for everybody (it's obvious, just look around you). i won't go into details, but these days, being involved in open source projects is actually a very good selling point for any coder, some will almost require it.
the original cry was "free as in speech" (subtitle: "we're coders and we want to work together, you greedy bastards"
)
the original (as well as the current version) of the license is not non-restrictive as such, it is restrictive enough to protect the freedom of the code (some will say it's "viral"; maybe, i hope it works
). i am talking gpl here not bsd or the likes.
anyway, back to the thread: i still think gnugo is good (strong) enough for a beginner (i know it can kick the s%$^ out of me), but still i would not recommend it except in small doses: play humans, and have fun! i would personally not recommend going anywhere beyond that "the interactive way to go" link before playing at least 100 games or so against humans. that's just my humble opinion, of course.
