L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215

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Magicwand
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L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215

Post by Magicwand »

Black to play. it is easy if you are know famous tesuji.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215

Post by Jordus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O 1 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

I know that :b1: kills white before white can kill the black group at H6... but seeing that this is a 1D-4D problem, I am probably missing some deep overall strategy....
I'm thinking...
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215

Post by Redundant »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 8 6 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X 4 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 5 O 2 9 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 1 3 . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Instantly knew this was http://senseis.xmp.net/?PattingTheRaccoonsBelly. If white four is anywhere else, black captures white.
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215

Post by Magicwand »

to:Redundant
object is to save three black stone. that might help you solve the problem.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215

Post by Shaddy »

My best attempt
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 8 O 1 2 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 7 . 4 6 3 5 X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]
Last edited by Shaddy on Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215

Post by Redundant »

Try number 2:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O 2 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 3 1 4 . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 7 O 2 6 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 3 1 5 8 O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 O 2 1 . O O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215

Post by jts »

redundant, can't w win the semeai instead?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 6 4 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 O 5 1 . O O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


my own stab...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O 1 2 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . 3 O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


edit: so neither of these is w's strongest resistance, shaddy gives a better one. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X 5 X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 4 O 2 O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O 3 X 1 X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 5 O 4 O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O 3 X 1 X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215

Post by Shaddy »

jts wrote:redundant, can't w win the semeai instead?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 6 4 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 O 5 1 . O O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


my own stab...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O 1 2 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . 3 O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


edit: so neither of these is w's strongest resistance, shaddy gives a better one. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X 5 X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 4 O 2 O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O 3 X 1 X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 5 O 4 O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O 3 X 1 X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


first diagram: 3 at 5
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215

Post by Magicwand »

Shaddy wrote:My best attempt
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 8 O 1 2 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 7 . 4 6 3 5 X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


cutting at 1 will fail because of this.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 6 O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 4 O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 2 X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X 1 X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . O O X X X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215

Post by Violence »

Here goes.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X 7 X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X 6 O 2 8 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 4 3 1 5 0 O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 1 . O O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (1D~4D) problem #215

Post by Loons »

After 5 frustratingly puzzled minutes I came up with this. Move 1 looks like a good candidate for being a famous tesuji. Does it have a name ? Am I just embarrassing myself again ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O 4 3 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 2 . 5 O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

and white has no good 6. White can try other moves but black just plays the move that keeps him ahead in the capturing race.

Edit: This seems much stiffer resistance for white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O 2 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 1 3 5 . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

But once again white seems to have no good 6.


Aaaand why I'm inevitably wrong:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 a . . O X . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

I think the answer starts at a instead, and is similar to my answer.
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
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