I almost said you could guess if you thought about what I was originally trying to play but that would have given it away...
This switches to an influence based opening, I think, and I'm trying to learn new stuff, so I played it.
Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
-
daniel_the_smith
- Gosei
- Posts: 2116
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:51 am
- Rank: 2d AGA
- GD Posts: 1193
- KGS: lavalamp
- Tygem: imapenguin
- IGS: lavalamp
- OGS: daniel_the_smith
- Location: Silicon Valley
- Has thanked: 152 times
- Been thanked: 330 times
- Contact:
Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
I have to say I'm liking my move more than the suggested ones...
I almost said you could guess if you thought about what I was originally trying to play but that would have given it away...
This switches to an influence based opening, I think, and I'm trying to learn new stuff, so I played it.
I almost said you could guess if you thought about what I was originally trying to play but that would have given it away...
This switches to an influence based opening, I think, and I'm trying to learn new stuff, so I played it.
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com
-
freegame
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 399
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:40 am
- Rank: EGF 2d KGS 3d
- GD Posts: 353
- KGS: freegame
- Location: Shanghai, China
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 35 times
- Contact:
Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
I got a question about blacks opening:
The goal of a Dankovitch is to give kyu players an insight in the thoughts of dan players isn't it?
Then why do you play such an uncommon opening?
guessing the next move:
The goal of a Dankovitch is to give kyu players an insight in the thoughts of dan players isn't it?
Then why do you play such an uncommon opening?
guessing the next move:
-
dfan
- Gosei
- Posts: 1603
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:49 am
- Rank: AGA 2k Fox 3d
- GD Posts: 61
- KGS: dfan
- Has thanked: 892 times
- Been thanked: 537 times
- Contact:
Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
I'm happy to see this. This sort of shimari always terrifies me (as White in this case) and I'm eager to see how Shaddy handles it.
I think that part of it is to give the kyu players a chance to think about the moves first, before they're explained; otherwise it's kind of just a Malkovich game.The goal of a Dankovitch is to give kyu players an insight in the thoughts of dan players isn't it?
-
amnal
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:42 am
- Rank: 2 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- Been thanked: 114 times
Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
If the thoughts of dan players are 'I'll play differently to normal so that the kyu players will understand', maybe that defeats the pointfreegame wrote:I got a question about blacks opening:
The goal of a Dankovitch is to give kyu players an insight in the thoughts of dan players isn't it?
Then why do you play such an uncommon opening?
I realise that that's a false argument, but still, I doubt this sort of game is really less suitable than one where the players try to stick rigidly to more well known joseki. If nothing else, I think it's valuable to see how little the middlegame is influenced by your opponent's weird shapes in the opening
Actually, I think this is a great choice, because the shimari is fairly well researched whilst also being interesting and difficult to use effectively. It's only a little less professionally common than playing one space higher (which seems to be a fairly common amateur 'I will eat the whole board' move), though the normal shimari outnumbers both of these by far. It will be interesting to see how white chooses to handle it based on positional judgement, but also interesting to see if it matches pro responses (IMO, anyway).
-
daniel_the_smith
- Gosei
- Posts: 2116
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:51 am
- Rank: 2d AGA
- GD Posts: 1193
- KGS: lavalamp
- Tygem: imapenguin
- IGS: lavalamp
- OGS: daniel_the_smith
- Location: Silicon Valley
- Has thanked: 152 times
- Been thanked: 330 times
- Contact:
Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
If I played differently than normal (for me) just because people would be looking at the game then it wouldn't be an accurate reflection of how I normally play, I don't think. And it's high time I experiment with my opening a little.freegame wrote:I got a question about blacks opening:
The goal of a Dankovitch is to give kyu players an insight in the thoughts of dan players isn't it?
Then why do you play such an uncommon opening?
Besides, this way I can't pretend to know what I'm doing...
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com
-
Shaddy
- Lives in sente
- Posts: 1206
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:44 pm
- Rank: KGS 5d
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Str1fe, Midorisuke
- Has thanked: 51 times
- Been thanked: 192 times
Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
i think that if we play a normal opening, we will end up simply aping pro moves- but if we do something odd, then we have to use our own judgment, which reveals how we think, and is therefore more interesting.
-
Marcus
- Gosei
- Posts: 1387
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:51 am
- GD Posts: 209
- KGS: Marcus316
- Has thanked: 139 times
- Been thanked: 111 times
Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
I don't often see this approach/invasion. Is there any thoughts attached to this, or is it considered a common approach that I can look up myself?Shaddy wrote:
-
Chew Terr
- Gosei
- Posts: 2060
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:45 pm
- Rank: KGS 3k
- GD Posts: 264
- KGS: Chew
- Location: Texas
- Has thanked: 546 times
- Been thanked: 172 times
- Contact:
Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
Okay, I can see a few local followups:
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
-
amnal
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:42 am
- Rank: 2 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- Been thanked: 114 times
Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
This approach isn't particularly common, because it cedes the corner without really trying. White would normally play like this if he has some particular non-corner goal in mind. In this case, he wants to make a strong group on black's upper side, and judges this to be worth more than the territory loss.Marcus wrote:I don't often see this approach/invasion. Is there any thoughts attached to this, or is it considered a common approach that I can look up myself?Shaddy wrote:
I think this is actually not such a great plan, it is too scared of a moyo or a fight (in fact, I think this is very often the case when amateurs play it - I often see it in handicap games against my 5-3 point, as the opponent fears me).
To accomplish the same goal, I would personally prefer a or b. a splits the side without settling the corner, so it leaves more aji to exploit. b is a standard 5-3 approach designed to make a strong group, but it leaves white more centre strength. c also seems possible - it goes along with black's plan a bit, but this isn't a bad thing, and I'm sure white can do fine out of it if he wants to.
-
freegame
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 399
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:40 am
- Rank: EGF 2d KGS 3d
- GD Posts: 353
- KGS: freegame
- Location: Shanghai, China
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 35 times
- Contact:
Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
I do not like 
Black can now play the following to get a very nice result:
Black can now play the following to get a very nice result:
-
dfan
- Gosei
- Posts: 1603
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:49 am
- Rank: AGA 2k Fox 3d
- GD Posts: 61
- KGS: dfan
- Has thanked: 892 times
- Been thanked: 537 times
- Contact:
Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
Already I am learning something. I kind of wanted to pincer, as it would double as an extension from the shimari. But 1) corners are big, and 2) freegame's variation shows how Black still gets a nice attack.
-
daniel_the_smith
- Gosei
- Posts: 2116
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:51 am
- Rank: 2d AGA
- GD Posts: 1193
- KGS: lavalamp
- Tygem: imapenguin
- IGS: lavalamp
- OGS: daniel_the_smith
- Location: Silicon Valley
- Has thanked: 152 times
- Been thanked: 330 times
- Contact:
Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
I agreed with amnal during the game. White's approach gives up enough in the corner that I am happy just to take it. Freegame called the next three moves exactly, so I'll just post them:
EDIT: on reflection, I think it'd have been better if I just posted one move. I won't do multiple again.
EDIT: on reflection, I think it'd have been better if I just posted one move. I won't do multiple again.
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com
-
Marcus
- Gosei
- Posts: 1387
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:51 am
- GD Posts: 209
- KGS: Marcus316
- Has thanked: 139 times
- Been thanked: 111 times
-
daniel_the_smith
- Gosei
- Posts: 2116
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:51 am
- Rank: 2d AGA
- GD Posts: 1193
- KGS: lavalamp
- Tygem: imapenguin
- IGS: lavalamp
- OGS: daniel_the_smith
- Location: Silicon Valley
- Has thanked: 152 times
- Been thanked: 330 times
- Contact:
Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts
I would have played there, too, maybe Shaddy can tell us why he didn't...
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com