21. Magicwand (3d) vs. wms (1d)

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Magicwand
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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by Magicwand »

he can have everything if he gives me 6 stone. then again he doesnt have any other choice but to give me them 6 stones. i am very curious about what he will play.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O W O 1 6 . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . 2 4 5 . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 3 . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by wms »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O B . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yeah, now is probably the right time for White to play here. This will make things harder.
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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . W . . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by wms »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X B . . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So now I get the fight I wanted. :) Time to read for real. I would have liked to play at F11, it makes better shape with G8, but that leads to some problems:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X 2 4 8 9 . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X 1 3 7 . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X 6 . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O 5 . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Bad for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 1 9 0 . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X 4 7 8 O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X 3 5 6 . . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X 1 2 . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X . 2 . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

(the double 1 and double 2 are because I don't know how to make stones with 11 and 12 on them).

Interesting, it weakens white on top right, but scary; I might give up a lot and get nothing back.
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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O W . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X . . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i dont know what he has in mind...giveup top???
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by wms »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X B . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X . . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Interesting to see where magicwand goes from here. E14 can live easily, of course, but it makes me happy to chase it around. I would have expected him to be sacrifice it instead. Magicwand must have some plan; probably to weaken and/or kill E12 or F15, but I think I can do all right with both of them.
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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X W . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

he think he can save top and take side same time...i c.
my feeling is that will not happen.
simple example of what will happen.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X 5 . 6 . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . 4 . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X W . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 2 . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 3 . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by wms »

This move will need some thought again. I'll move some time tonight. Sorry for the delay.

Don't you hate it when your opponent makes moves, and you can't for the life of you figure out why they did it? When they're weaker than you, you can chalk it up to "they don't know what they're doing." But magicwand is stronger than me, not weaker, so here I feel like I must be the one who doesn't know what he's doing. But G12 just makes no sense at all to me. It's asking me to play G11 or somewhere near there, which is exactly where I want to play to get a bigger left side! H14 is a bit weak, but G12 doesn't seem to help with them either. In fact, by asking me to close my left side gap, it strengthens F12 a bit, which is one less thing for me to worry about when I have to run or make life with H14. It's like the "To attack one side, first attack the other to build up strength, then go for what you want," except in this case it looks to me like magicwand will be losing strength as he leans on F12.

Anyway, so because this move makes no sense to me at all, I want to take a good long time to look at it and try to figure out what is going on. Here at work I don't like to spend more than 30 seconds to a minute on a move, and I figure this one is worth at least 5-10 minutes to make sure I'm not missing something.
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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by dfan »

This game is really entertaining.
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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by wms »

Glad you're enjoying it, dfan. I am too. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B . . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Gosh, I just don't see it. G11 had to be the move that magicwand expected me to make. But everything I read, G11 looks so strong! The whole G12 group is seriously weak now! My shape is nearly perfect sealing in the left side! H14 isn't out of the woods, but with the weakness of G12, everything I read makes it look OK. So...why would magicwand have made a move that makes me play something so good? I don't know. I must be missing something. But I'm not going to play an inferior move just because I'm scared that I'm missing something, so here goes.
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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X W . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i dont know... i am not sure if i can kill top group... i will try.
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The greater the unknown"

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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by wms »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . B . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I would obviously like to play H10, but...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc OUCH OUCH OUCH
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . 5 6 . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . 4 . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . 2 . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 3 1 . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . W . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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The greater the unknown"

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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by wms »

Sorry, another move that needs thought.

The thing to ponder: Connect out, or make life locally? Both are risky and I need to read out completely to know which can work. A quick read makes it look to me like starting with J13 will force magicwand to either let me connect out, or let me kill G13, but to be really sure I need to spend a fair amount of time studying the position.

If J13 doesn't work, then there is still a possibility that playing K15 or J15 will let me make two eyes. There's some nice aji there.

Overall I think I'm OK, but I really don't want to mess up here.
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Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms

Post by Kirby »

wms wrote:Sorry, another move that needs thought.

The thing to ponder: Connect out, or make life locally? Both are risky and I need to read out completely to know which can work. A quick read makes it look to me like starting with J13 will force magicwand to either let me connect out, or let me kill G13, but to be really sure I need to spend a fair amount of time studying the position.

If J13 doesn't work, then there is still a possibility that playing K15 or J15 will let me make two eyes. There's some nice aji there.

Overall I think I'm OK, but I really don't want to mess up here.


If I were white, and black played J13, I'd play J12.
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