daniel_the_smith wrote:Whoa, shocks me, I would have criticized that move a lot if I was reviewing this game. How is it not major aji-keshi?
This kind of peep destroys the cut, but it also makes black heavy by destroying his eye potential there; also, black's group is now absolutely and utterly unsacrificeable. It's the kind of move that you'd play while attacking severely.
I have to say, I didn't expect this either. Is there really a severe enough attack possible here?
Honestly, I'm still not really sold on It seems too slow and passive and gives white a chance to stabilize. Something like K18 seemed a lot better for black to me. Was the cut really a problem at all? I guess we'll see what black's thinking was soon. Maybe it's just about making points in sente when there wasn't really anything to get with something like K18?
"There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." -- Bruce Lee
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . W 1 . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . C . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Before the exchange, black needed a move to get an eye. After the exchange, black needs a move to make an eye. I see no net profit for white there. It still looks like aji-keshi. And now H6 by black is even bigger.
[go]$$Wcm76 : Move 76. Points from prisoners: B 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , 1 . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
That is probably the biggest, but it is slow. I don't think that black can afford to play it.
I counted. Even after that play, white is ahead on the board by about 10 points, plus komi. Black is rapidly running out of options to win this game. Playing a big gote move here is - in the words of a Korean 6P whose name I forget - walking step by step to your grave.
I think that black must play aggressively here.
$$Wcm76 My prediction $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , 1 . 2 . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm76 : Move 76. Points from prisoners: B 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , 1 . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
That is probably the biggest, but it is slow. I don't think that black can afford to play it.
I counted. Even after that play, white is ahead on the board by about 10 points, plus komi. Black is rapidly running out of options to win this game. Playing a big gote move here is - in the words of a Korean 6P whose name I forget - walking step by step to your grave.
I think that black must play aggressively here.
$$Wcm76 My prediction $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , 1 . 2 . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm76 My prediction $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , 1 . 2 . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i am sorry to burst your bubble..but you counted wrong. it is close game and i think black is winning. what you suggested is not agressive but foolish. it has no purpose and it is very close to playing dame.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown" Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
is the type of move I'm trying to see more of in my games. A deep move with two escape routes due to the bad aji in the opponent's shape.
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
Magicwand wrote:... it is close game and i think black is winning...
$$Wcm76 : Move 76. Points from prisoners: B 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | C C C C C . . . . . . . . . . C C C C | $$ | C C C C C X . . . . . . . . . C C C C | $$ | C C C C C X O . . . . . . . X C C C C | $$ | C C X C X O S . . , 1 . . . . , X C C | $$ | . . C C X O S O . . . . . . . . . C C | $$ | . . . X C X O . . . . . . . . . . C C | $$ | . . . X C X O . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . S S | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . S S | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O S S | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O S S S | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O S S | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O # S S | $$ | . . . O S # # O X C C W X . . O S S S | $$ | S S O # # S S O . X X W C X . . O S S | $$ | S S O S S S O S O O X C C . . . . S S | $$ | S S S S S S S S . . . . . . . . . S S | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm76 : Move 76. Points from prisoners: B 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | C C C C C . . . . . . . . . . C C C C | $$ | C C C C C X . . . . . . . . . C C C C | $$ | C C C C C X O . . . . . . . X C C C C | $$ | C C X C X O S . . , 1 . . . . , X C C | $$ | . . C C X O S O . . . . . . . . . C C | $$ | . . . X C X O . . . . . . . . . . C C | $$ | . . . X C X O . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . S S | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . S S | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O S S | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O S S S | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O S S | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O # S S | $$ | . . . O S # # O X C C W X . . O S S S | $$ | S S O # # S S O . X X W C X . . O S S | $$ | S S O S S S O S O O X C C . . . . S S | $$ | S S S S S S S S . . . . . . . . . S S | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
On the board I count black = 46, white = 53. Beyond that, black has two prisoners which I forgot. Black seems to have slighly better prospects in the middle, which are hard to quantify. White has komi, of presumably 4.5 to 7.5 points.
[go]$$Bcm77 NOT ACTUAL GAME: Move 77. Points from prisoners: B 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . 2 , O . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
...
Locally, right around , white is stronger. Playing a contact move here seems unduly defensive. White's move below is better shape, and follows the proverb of not strengthening a weak stone with a contact move.
$$Bcm77 My prediction $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . 2 . , O . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
How is a weak stone? It can very easily connect to the strong black group.
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
Joaz Banbeck wrote:On the board I count black = 46, white = 53. Beyond that, black has two prisoners which I forgot. Black seems to have slighly better prospects in the middle, which are hard to quantify. White has komi, of presumably 4.5 to 7.5 points.
Now this you surely miscounted, you marked 49 points on the board for black, not 46 . Plus 2 prisoners, he has 51 against, let's say, white's 53+6.5 = 59.5. I also think black has just slightly better endgame prospects than white along the sides. So the question is: is black's prospects in the middle + the weakness of white's group together + his marginally better endgame - the value of white's sente worth at least 8.5 points? Quite possibly... Anyway, it looks like a very very close game to me.
shocks me, I would have criticized that move a lot if I was reviewing this game. How is it not major aji-keshi?
It seems too slow and passive and gives white a chance to stabilize. Something like K18 seemed a lot better for black to me. Was the cut really a problem at all? I guess we'll see what black's thinking was soon. Maybe it's just about making points in sente when there wasn't really anything to get with something like K18?
is the type of move I'm trying to see more of in my games. A deep move with two escape routes due to the bad aji in the opponent's shape.
. Plus 2 prisoners, he has 51 against, let's say, white's 53+6.5 = 59.5. I also think black has just slightly better endgame prospects than white along the sides. So the question is: is black's prospects in the middle + the weakness of white's group together + his marginally better endgame - the value of white's sente worth at least 8.5 points? Quite possibly... Anyway, it looks like a very very close game to me.