Close Game, 4k vs 3k

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Marcus
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Close Game, 4k vs 3k

Post by Marcus »

Here's a recent game of mine. I played Black, and the game was fairly close. I've made a few comments in the opening, but would appreciate any feedback from any players who want to look through it.

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Redundant
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Re: Close Game, 4k vs 3k

Post by Redundant »

I'm not that much stronger than you, but 17 is certainly gote, but so huge that white almost always prevents the enclosure after Q9.
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emeraldemon
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Re: Close Game, 4k vs 3k

Post by emeraldemon »

Keep in mind I'm only about the same strength as you, but I didn't like B53. You invest a lot into a strong wall facing the right, and then white lives right inside your strength and you don't get much compensation. Maybe I'm thinking too aggressively, but what about something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 50 to 52
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X X O X . O X . O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X X . X X 2 X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . O . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . O . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think topazg has a video somewhere about capping when the opponent enters your strength.
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Dusk Eagle
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Re: Close Game, 4k vs 3k

Post by Dusk Eagle »

I second what emarldemon said about Move 53. Do you know the saying "Don't touch weak stones"? That is exactly what you did. You must attack weak stones, and touching them is the least effective way to do that. I would probably play the cap same cap he showed.
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amnal
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Re: Close Game, 4k vs 3k

Post by amnal »

As the proverb goes, 'cap cap kill kill'.


EDIT: Some more general comments

17: This is massive. Good move. Black's stones all work very well together.

27: Not sure I like this one - black's shape is kinda overconcentrated, and there are still invasion/reduction points at S16, R11 etc. I think maybe a move like Q12 would be better, but I'm not sure.

29: Even if the idea is good (it seems okay), I think you should play G14. That would accomplish basically the same thing, but on a larger scale. I'm not sure if black should play elsewhere (this is big), the move certainly seems okay.

31: I might be inclined to play L15 here. J17 works badly with your other stones, it isn't necessary - blacvk already has territory shapes in the area. It seems more interesting to seal white in and then play a very big moyo move for all your stones to work together.

35: Seems more interesting to play Q18. It isn't like white's alive yet, so when he addds a move you can you finish the right side. Your move isn't necessarily wrong, but it isn't obviously good and it's hard to read conclusively.

43: Your wall is certainly formidable now.

49: Not sure this is actually best, as white can ignore it locally without it being very damaging to him. Maybe something around tengen is stronger, since black's wall is so fantastic. Hard to say though.

51: I would not answer this move - black is fine. Maybe black R13 (EDIT: typo, was Q13 before) would be strong. It isn't obvious how white will escape.

53: Cap cap kill kill, as discussed.

58: White makes terrible shape. Either he's read out that this is the best way to save as many stones as possible, or his moves were bad. I suspect the latter.

67: N9 or similar seems like a more suitable om-nom-kill-kill move. It isn't obvious to me that it doesn't work, as you still have the P7 atari. The shape is a bit thin though...maybe solid is best.

71: It isn't obvious that if you seal white in, white is alive. He has 0 eyes, and 1 move to make 2 eyes. So maybe play N10.

81: I don't think you need to bother playing here, it's just small endgame. It's time to get your own back by invading white's side. I'm not sure quite how, though.

91: Seems more interesting to jump into the corner, on the assumptionp that black is alive fully on the outside ;) . At the very leasy, black can probably run safely as white is not alive.

131: Did you think about going deeper? There are several ways to leave connection miai, you don't have to reduce from one side only. That said, this perhaps keeps more pressure on white.

148: Why didn't you play this earlier? It's sente!
Last edited by amnal on Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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lorill
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Re: Close Game, 4k vs 3k

Post by lorill »

nothing to say except I just lost to this player by half a point :batman:
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hyperpape
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Re: Close Game, 4k vs 3k

Post by hyperpape »

One more who's not competent to add too much, but I'm skeptical of the moves after H3. Yuo actually just end up strengthening white, in gote. Sticking your head out just doesn't seem that valuable.
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amnal
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Re: Close Game, 4k vs 3k

Post by amnal »

hyperpape wrote:One more who's not competent to add too much, but I'm skeptical of the moves after H3. Yuo actually just end up strengthening white, in gote. Sticking your head out just doesn't seem that valuable.


Not sure I agree with this. Sticking your head out is almost always valuable, even if it isn't obviously so. Plus white ends up looking a tad overconcentrated. Plus plus it prevents white sealing black totally into the corner, which is the kind of sudden game-changing move that one always forgets about.

Ignoring it is likely fine with the right plan, but I don't think it can be dismissed out of hand as just strengthening white.

As a slightly separate point, possibly black can escape in better shape with G4. I think this shape is used sometimes.
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Shaddy
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Re: Close Game, 4k vs 3k

Post by Shaddy »

I think w 50 is gote, b should just r13.
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