Another video - malkovich game ;)

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:45 am

I've finally gotten around to doing another Livestream video - this time a sort of Malkovich-y game a bit like Bat's (thinking out loud as I play). It's against our very own Chew Terr, and is available at http://livestre.am/pxE2

I do apologise for the very mediocre audio quality - It was a slight mixture between poor bandwidth and the mic slipping. So, as always feedback appreciated. My videos will probably be a mixture of the three so far - game reviews, topic lectures, and Malkovich type videos.

At the moment, topics still on my shortlist (*s for my priority level) are as follows:

* The shoulder hit
* Invasion vs reduction
** Openings and how to evaluate positions
* Sente vs honte vs gote moves : best choice
*** Thickness. How to use it. When to create it.
*** Aji and aji-keshi

Hopefully my next one will be after less of a long hiatus, it depends on so many other personal lifestyle factors at the moment

Post by **Jordus** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:04 am

Very nice videos

I find these type of videos to be very instructive.

Had a question about the "capping move" I believed you called it around move 97... I made a variation the sgf that I was thinking of.. any reason that variation wouldn't work? Or is the result from it not wanted as white?

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:09 am

Jordus wrote:Very nice videos I find these type of videos to be very instructive.

Many thanks

Jordus wrote:Had a question about the "capping move" I believed you called it around move 97... I made a variation the sgf that I was thinking of.. any reason that variation wouldn't work? Or is the result from it not wanted as white?

I was more concerned about Black playing O7 than the hane at N7. It all screams heavy play to me for White, unless I can guarantee enough effective cuts to scrap my way out (which, I agree with you, the hane would have given me).

Because forcing Black to make a line downwards just helps him unless I either a) live completely on the other side, or b) get enough thickness to attack something properly, I decided against it. It's like a poker game when you've just got a full house, and someone's looking suspiciously excited on the other side of the table - do you keep raising because you think you've got a good hand, or accept that an all in stakes is too dangerous and fold for a better hand?

Apologies if you aren't familiar enough with poker, but I find that a suitable analogy for those that are

Post by **Jordus** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:11 am

topazg wrote:Apologies if you aren't familiar enough with poker, but I find that a suitable analogy for those that are

Good analogy... Poker is a game I am actually good at lol..

robinz · Post by **robinz** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:13 am

Thanks for creating and sharing this - I found it both fun (I love the phrase "atari-ish nonsense"

), and really useful to see how a stronger player thinks during a game. About the only think I would say in criticism would be that I found it hard to follow the sequences you were reading (lots of "white-black-white-black..." while moving the mouse quickly), but clearly you can't do any better than you did when you were actually playing the game live at the same time, so I guess it's not really a criticism

One thing I found curious - there was a move of Chew's quite late on which you described as a mistake as soon as it had been made, but you then spent a very long time over your response and didn't seem (to me) to have a clear idea of what you should do against it. So how were you so sure it was a mistake?

PS: Thanks also to Chew for being a willing victim

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:29 am

robinz wrote:Thanks for creating and sharing this - I found it both fun (I love the phrase "atari-ish nonsense" ), and really useful to see how a stronger player thinks during a game. About the only think I would say in criticism would be that I found it hard to follow the sequences you were reading (lots of "white-black-white-black..." while moving the mouse quickly), but clearly you can't do any better than you did when you were actually playing the game live at the same time, so I guess it's not really a criticism

Since I play slowly and we had ASR time settings, you probably do have time to go back in and show your reading. Bat does well with this, hovering his mouse and slowly moving it in the sequence he's referring to.

robinz wrote:One thing I found curious - there was a move of Chew's quite late on which you described as a mistake as soon as it had been made, but you then spent a very long time over your response and didn't seem (to me) to have a clear idea of what you should do against it. So how were you so sure it was a mistake?

I had hesitated to play it, because the shape seemed a little awkward. However, I ended up going with it because I couldn't see any easy refutation. I was hoping that this was one of the situations where bad shape is worth it. If you can come up with a better refutation with the power of hindsight, I'd appreciate being showed it.

robinz wrote:PS: Thanks also to Chew for being a willing victim

No problem, it was pretty fun. This game was a bit embarassing (my count was the same as Topazg's, so I really felt like I ought to have resigned earlier), and I made two or three big, painful misreads. Topazg and I tend to have interesting teaching games (we often have an empty corner for the first dozen moves, sort of thing), so I don't mind being the sacrificial lamb for the video.

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:35 am

robinz wrote:Thanks for creating and sharing this - I found it both fun (I love the phrase "atari-ish nonsense" ), and really useful to see how a stronger player thinks during a game. About the only think I would say in criticism would be that I found it hard to follow the sequences you were reading (lots of "white-black-white-black..." while moving the mouse quickly), but clearly you can't do any better than you did when you were actually playing the game live at the same time, so I guess it's not really a criticism

You are welcome

You are right, my inexperience showed a lot there - I'll endeavour to do that better, and slower, next time

robinz wrote:One thing I found curious - there was a move of Chew's quite late on which you described as a mistake as soon as it had been made, but you then spent a very long time over your response and didn't seem (to me) to have a clear idea of what you should do against it. So how were you so sure it was a mistake?

I'm fairly sure now that it wasn't a mistake. I'm not sure whether it was a good move, or whether it worked, but it wasn't a mistake. Often that shape leaves squeezes and ataris with sufficiently bad aji that things fall apart, but the more I read, the more I realised that wasn't the case here. It also allowed Black to hane around my single stone which would have been quite big.

Good spot!

daal · Post by **daal** » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:06 am

Topazg - I enjoyed your video very much, and I think you managed to give an excellent representation of what you were thinking about during the game.

While I found much of what you said easy to follow, there was one type of situation that repeatedly lost me: it was when you made a quick assessment whether a sequence worked or not. You often showed a sequence by quickly indicating where the stones would be played, saying for example: black goes here, white here, black, white, black white... Well, you lost me every time. First of all, I was unsure of what you were assessing, and second, I couldn't follow your postulated sequence.

I don't mean this as a criticism. Like I said, you did a great job showing what you were thinking about. I just wanted to give you my feedback and say that this 6k couldn't follow these sequences. What might have made it easier for me to follow would be if you had labeled the groups before showing the sequences, saying something to the effect of: If I play here, can he separate my A group from my B group? Hmm. No. Black goes here, white here, black, white, etc...

In any case, I found your video to be quite entertaining. Thanks!

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:37 pm

daal wrote:Topazg - I enjoyed your video very much, and I think you managed to give an excellent representation of what you were thinking about during the game.

Very kind of you, thanks

daal wrote:While I found much of what you said easy to follow, there was one type of situation that repeatedly lost me: it was when you made a quick assessment whether a sequence worked or not. You often showed a sequence by quickly indicating where the stones would be played, saying for example: black goes here, white here, black, white, black white... Well, you lost me every time. First of all, I was unsure of what you were assessing, and second, I couldn't follow your postulated sequence.

Yes, I obviously did this very poorly this time round - I will certainly try to find a better way of doing thi in the future. I did wonder at the time, particularly when my reading got more intense and I sort of go "Black here, then White, Black, Wht, Bk, W, duh, hmm, click, click, and yeah, I'm ok"

daal wrote:I don't mean this as a criticism. Like I said, you did a great job showing what you were thinking about. I just wanted to give you my feedback and say that this 6k couldn't follow these sequences. What might have made it easier for me to follow would be if you had labeled the groups before showing the sequences, saying something to the effect of: If I play here, can he separate my A group from my B group? Hmm. No. Black goes here, white here, black, white, etc...

Nono, it's a good criticism, and it's very much appreciated. It's clearly a sign that this area should be a lot better. Labelling groups is a nice idea, I'll try that next time

daal wrote:In any case, I found your video to be quite entertaining. Thanks!

A pleasure

gromit · Post by **gromit** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:33 pm

I found it both absorbing and educational - and it's not easy to be both. I'm sure I followed even less of the reading sequences than many others did, but that didn't me bother much: what is really helpful at my level (about 10k) is to see the sort of thing that a strong player thinks about, rather than try to follow deep reading which I could never do myself anyway. To some extent you can get that from books, of course, but real-time commentary - especially by a native English speaker - really brings it alive. I'd love to see more of these: no change required, except perhaps to improve the audio quality if possible.

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:40 pm

gromit wrote:I found it both absorbing and educational - and it's not easy to be both. I'm sure I followed even less of the reading sequences than many others did, but that didn't me bother much: what is really helpful at my level (about 10k) is to see the sort of thing that a strong player thinks about, rather than try to follow deep reading which I could never do myself anyway. To some extent you can get that from books, of course, but real-time commentary - especially by a native English speaker - really brings it alive. I'd love to see more of these: no change required, except perhaps to improve the audio quality if possible.

I'm certainly looking forwards to Topazg's next video. Until then, if you're looking for more of the same sort of thing, check out Bat's (our own Serapis on here) videos at http://www.livestream.com/batslectures as he has a lot of the same sort of Malkovich thing.

CnP · Post by **CnP** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:56 pm

+1 for what gromit said. :tmbup:

Thanks for making this video available (another example of Go stopping me get to sleep when I really should have).

Numsgil · Post by **Numsgil** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:55 pm

I'm still waiting for my 'capping Part 2 of 2' video. I feel so incomplete.

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:56 pm

Numsgil wrote:I'm still waiting for my 'capping Part 2 of 2' video. I feel so incomplete.

Hey, I'm hoping for a chance at revenge. =D

Numsgil · Post by **Numsgil** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:44 pm

If you play again, you should not let topazg kill all your stones in the top left. He seems to like that strategy.

Life In 19x19

Another video - malkovich game ;)

Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)

Re: Another video - malkovich game ;)