Volunteers wanted

[Hsiang]

Under the Area and Territory rules that these new International Referees will officiate on, the Ko rule will effectively be the same unless the game is recorded. If it is recorded there can be no dispute. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

For this example you are correct. But if we look at the recent disputes that actually took place on the board - at least the well publicized ones - you will see that in most cases the referees have had to do some interpretation of the rules because the latter simply cannot be written to account for every possible scenario. Here having an understanding of the actual play is an important part of making decision. I think this is what Dan alluded to.

[shapenaji]

I would also argue that it's not that a 10k couldn't understand the rules or the ruling, but that the stronger a player is, the more readily the problem associated with a position will become apparent, and the less likely the player is to be biased by a mistaken judgement of the board.

.... Although, I'm curious, in the past, how often have referees been called to make a decision, outside of Japanese rules?

[HermanHiddema]

I would also argue that it's not that a 10k couldn't understand the rules or the ruling, but that the stronger a player is, the more readily the problem associated with a position will become apparent, and the less likely the player is to be biased by a mistaken judgement of the board.

.... Although, I'm curious, in the past, how often have referees been called to make a decision, outside of Japanese rules?

In my experience, the most common causes for calling a referee are:

1. Clock malfunction or confusion
2. Questions about an unfamiliar rule set (e.g. Ing rules)
3. Weak players needing help with L&D or seki for counting.
4. Technicalities (e.g. when is a move final?)

The number of times a referee is called for such thing as triple ko, bent four, or other tricky rules dependent positions is vanishingly small.

[Horibe]

I would also argue that it's not that a 10k couldn't understand the rules or the ruling, but that the stronger a player is, the more readily the problem associated with a position will become apparent, and the less likely the player is to be biased by a mistaken judgement of the board.

.... Although, I'm curious, in the past, how often have referees been called to make a decision, outside of Japanese rules?

In my experience, the most common causes for calling a referee are:

1. Clock malfunction or confusion
2. Questions about an unfamiliar rule set (e.g. Ing rules)
3. Weak players needing help with L&D or seki for counting.
4. Technicalities (e.g. when is a move final?)

The number of times a referee is called for such thing as triple ko, bent four, or other tricky rules dependent positions is vanishingly small.

I certainly agree with the above. Still, their can be huge egos involved in these disputes, and often there will be a winner and a loser. I suspect that, regardless of the necessity, the stronger the referee, the more respect for the decision (all other factors being equal).

[HermanHiddema]

I certainly agree with the above. Still, their can be huge egos involved in these disputes, and often there will be a winner and a loser. I suspect that, regardless of the necessity, the stronger the referee, the more respect for the decision (all other factors being equal).

Yes, one of the most important qualities in a referee is that he or she should be respected by the players. Although it is not always warranted, stronger players are generally accorded more respect, so they will have a head start. Still, weaker players that have a reputation for fair refereeing will also command respect, so it is by no means impossible to be a referee without being a dan player. Also, confidence and people skills are important in a referee, and will go a long way.

[RobertJasiek]

Has the AGA done some similar international referee education as the EGF? Getting volunteers without preparation might be difficult. Therefore, if the AGA (or America as a whole) has not done it so far, establishing referee education should help. Beyond that, the scope of education can vary. Are only rules or tournament rules used in North America taught or would an international referee be truely international by also readily knowing WMSG Rules or rules specific in Asian countries?

[Magicwand]

Has the AGA done some similar international referee education as the EGF? Getting volunteers without preparation might be difficult. Therefore, if the AGA (or America as a whole) has not done it so far, establishing referee education should help. Beyond that, the scope of education can vary. Are only rules or tournament rules used in North America taught or would an international referee be truely international by also readily knowing WMSG Rules or rules specific in Asian countries?

you may not use the word "difficult" because you have to save that for extream difficulty.
is it not your way of thinking?

does it mean that they have to be an excellent referee prior to refereeing?
OH! i guess no one is qualified to be a referee if that is the condition.

actually what you said above make some sense unlike your "excellent" argument in other thread.

[Javaness]

The EGF strikes me as a terrible source/educator of referees

If you press the move button instead of the look button on an Ing clock by accident then you have passed ???

[RobertJasiek]

Magicwand, hold meta-discussion with yourself.

Javaness, if you want to discuss EGF referee quality for itself, the EGF forum seems appropriate.

[wessanenoctupus]

@ RobertJasiek, and Magicwand

love and peace guys

[karaklis]

@ RobertJasiek, and Magicwand

love and peace guys

And a go match between these two would be cool

[Magicwand]

@ RobertJasiek, and Magicwand

love and peace guys

And a go match between these two would be cool

he said that he can beat professional with 2 stone handycap and i can not.
i know i can not beat professionals with 3 stone handycap.
i guess he is stronger than i am. then can he give me 2 stone??? i dont think so.
but i dont mind playing him even game to prove how weak he is if he accept.

[wessanenoctupus]

@ RobertJasiek, and Magicwand

love and peace guys

And a go match between these two would be cool

he said that he can beat professional with 2 stone handycap and i can not.
i know i can not beat professionals with 3 stone handycap.
i guess he is stronger than i am. then can he give me 2 stone??? i dont think so.
but i dont mind playing him even game to prove how weak he is if he accept.

Robert maybe a bit odd, but he is not weak. I have played him before (I know I am only 1k, but I could sort gauge his strength)

Magicwand, try not to insult people. Maybe you are right, maybe you can beat him, but as I said earlier eace and Love <333

[Javaness]

Robert maybe a bit odd, but he is not weak. I have played him before (I know I am only 1k, but I could sort gauge his strength)

Magicwand, try not to insult people. Maybe you are right, maybe you can beat him, but as I said earlier eace and Love <333

Peace and love are beautiful things, but i'd still love to see a 7 game series between these two titans!

[quantumf]

I'll second (or third) that idea!