4-4 approach w/ 1 space pincer question

[hyperpape]

This way black just crushes against the edge
Monkey jump along the first line gets black's stones out, but it doesn't gain eyes or liberties usually (so I don't read it out at all).

Oh, but considering it is fun--I'd never even considered the monkey jump, and if I'm right, the correct response is a delightfully funny looking move. Maybe there's another sequence where you run across to the right depending on the outside area, but I don't think any of a-d work for White.

$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . . 2 b 1 . . .
$$ | . . O X a b d . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . . 2 b 1 . . .
$$ | . . O X a b d . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

and then you get even more sillier problems like this:

$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . 2 1 3 . . 5 . . .
$$ | 4 . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . 2 1 3 . . 5 . . .
$$ | 4 . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

[daal]

$$B
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 4 5 . 2 . 3 . .
$$ | . . 6 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 4 5 . 2 . 3 . .
$$ | . . 6 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

I've been playing a good deal of blitz the last few months, and it seems that about every 5 games an opponent will play 7. I make this face , play c18 and watch him squirm.

http://www.bantari.net/go/bloopers/page-002.php

Hope this helps.

I read your blooper page a few years ago and enjoyed it very much. I'm glad you haven't forgotten it Any chance that you might add any more installments?

[Numsgil]

This way black just crushes against the edge
Monkey jump along the first line gets black's stones out, but it doesn't gain eyes or liberties usually (so I don't read it out at all).

Oh, but considering it is fun--I'd never even considered the monkey jump, and if I'm right, the correct response is a delightfully funny looking move. Maybe there's another sequence where you run across to the right depending on the outside area, but I don't think any of a-d work for White.

$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . . 2 b 1 . . .
$$ | . . O X a b d . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . . 2 b 1 . . .
$$ | . . O X a b d . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

and then you get even more sillier problems like this:

$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . 2 1 3 . . 5 . . .
$$ | 4 . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . 2 1 3 . . 5 . . .
$$ | 4 . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Yep. It's a blind spot (I didn't really recognize it as a blind spot until I was making that post). Like in your last diagram there... After posting, I was thinking about the problem some more, and thought up to 4 and declared it a dead end. 5 makes it much less obviously a dead end, and deserves some more brow-furrowed reading. Like if I saw 5 in a game as white, I'd think, "Overplay! Oh, wait... How do I stop that. Can I still just block normally?" I'd probably make a hash of it as white.

[illluck]

I didn't read the other moves, but 2 here works as far as I can tell (barring very rare situations where there are solid 1st line stones nearby).

$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . 5 3 6 1 . . .
$$ | . . O X 2 . . . . .
$$ | . . O X 4 O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . 5 3 6 1 . . .
$$ | . . O X 2 . . . . .
$$ | . . O X 4 O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Similar thing here.

$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . 2 1 3 8 7 5 . . .
$$ | 4 . O X . 6 . . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . 2 1 3 8 7 5 . . .
$$ | 4 . O X . 6 . . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

I must admit that I never considered those two responses (and I probably miss many other possibilities as well), but I'm mostly confident for this particular situation that anything outside consideration will be very easy to refute.

[amnal]

This way black just crushes against the edge
Monkey jump along the first line gets black's stones out, but it doesn't gain eyes or liberties usually (so I don't read it out at all).

Oh, but considering it is fun--I'd never even considered the monkey jump, and if I'm right, the correct response is a delightfully funny looking move. Maybe there's another sequence where you run across to the right depending on the outside area, but I don't think any of a-d work for White.

$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . . 2 b 1 . . .
$$ | . . O X a b d . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . . . 2 b 1 . . .
$$ | . . O X a b d . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

and then you get even more sillier problems like this:

$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . 2 1 3 . . 5 . . .
$$ | 4 . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . 2 1 3 . . 5 . . .
$$ | 4 . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Yep. It's a blind spot (I didn't really recognize it as a blind spot until I was making that post). Like in your last diagram there... After posting, I was thinking about the problem some more, and thought up to 4 and declared it a dead end. 5 makes it much less obviously a dead end, and deserves some more brow-furrowed reading. Like if I saw 5 in a game as white, I'd think, "Overplay! Oh, wait... How do I stop that. Can I still just block normally?" I'd probably make a hash of it as white.

I'm not sure I'd call it a blind spot unless it worked for black.

[Apoah]

http://www.bantari.net/go/bloopers/page-002.php

Hope this helps.

Thank you. This discussion has been great. I appreciate everyone's comments and have been following along.

I was glad to be introduced to your blog and also it was cool to see that you have already spent some time discussing this very situation!

I will take some time to peruse the archives.

[hyperpape]

@illuck you're right. I was thinking of a ko that's not there, thanks to a.

$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . a X X . X . . .
$$ | . . O X O 1 2 . . .
$$ | . . O X O O 5 . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O 3 . . . . .
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------
$$ | . . a X X . X . . .
$$ | . . O X O 1 2 . . .
$$ | . . O X O O 5 . . .
$$ | . . O X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O 3 . . . . .
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]