Joseki dictionary

[Apoah]

2 questions:

1) Is there a consensus about which printed English Joseki dictionary is best for studying?

2) What other online Joseki dictionaries exist besides joseki.com and sensei's? I would really like something with the functionality of joseki.com but with more updates and variations.

[flOvermind]

eidogo.com has Kogo's joseki dictionary. It's not really the best choice concerning updates and recent variations, but it's nice for looking up common variations

[judicata]

Right now, I don't think there is an all-in-one comprehensive, modern joseki dictionary in English. Ishida's is probably the most comprehensive, but it is outdated. I understand that John Power et. al are currently translating an updated version with the first of two volumes to come out in the spring. I believe (though I could be wrong) that the content will be as expansive as the classic 3-volume set, if not more so.

In any event, I highly recommend using a database in conjunction with any joseki dictionary--even if the book came out this year. I personally use SmartGo and GoGoD, but there are certainly other options. It is really great to see which joseki are actually the most common and review the games in which a sequence is used. This way, you can get a feel for when certain approaches and responses are chosen and why.

NOTE: Although I suggest using a database, I don't think we amateurs should follow pro joseki religiously. Just because a joseki has fallen into disuse in the pro world doesn't mean you can't use it with great success (and even "discarded" josekis pop up in games on occassion).

[palapiku]

...of course, whenever the subject of studying joseki comes up, these quotes are appropriate:

"I remember I hold a Joseki dictionary and memorize the contents, I could repeat every variations from memory and self-satisfaction for it. After I improved some years later, I know it was a detour, wasted many years."

"I know some amateur 5D never memorize josekis, so for amateur player to determine the victory is immiddle game."

(source: To become a master of Go is not easy, but became an amateur 5D or 6D it's not hard)

[Li Kao]

http://dailyjoseki.com

And Kogo's is available as sgf download somewhere

[daniel_the_smith]

I would highly recommend my own website but Li Kao beat me to it, hehe...

[RedStick]

brugo.net

You can see a number of variations for each consecutive move without having to play them all out. also clearly labels trick plays and has a few other nice features.

Also, to paraphrase kageyama: it's more imortant to learn from joseki than to learn joseki.

[tapir]

2 questions:

1) Is there a consensus about which printed English Joseki dictionary is best for studying?

2) What other online Joseki dictionaries exist besides joseki.com and sensei's? I would really like something with the functionality of joseki.com but with more updates and variations.

Sensei's Library sure has a lot of content (sequences, variations, discussions and yes, even mistakes) about joseki, but neither is nor tries at all to be a joseki dictionary in the proper sense. I believe it is helpful to keep this in mind.

I personally would say, don't spend money on a joseki dictionary as long has you have not got a good game database + search engine first to study professional opening practice. Whether this be GoGoD, SmartGo, MasterGo to name just three probably does not make much of a difference. While this may cover less variations than a comprehensive dictionary, it forces you to think yourself (why they play this joseki here, and that one there) and not to be bookish about your joseki study.

If you are still insisting on buying such a dictionary, you may also consider buying a joseki dictionary in a language you can't read. If you really can't figure out whether the sequence given is even or good for white or for black, you should improve in other areas first.

[blue88]

I use http://www.josekipedia.com an open source Joseki database.

Other than that I am waiting for the release of the "new Ishida" by Takao Shinji to make my first real Joseki dictionary purchase.

[Apoah]

Thank you all for the replies. I am simply amazed at all the amazing go resources online that I have never known about. EidoGo is amazing, Poor joseki.com will probably never be visited again.

I am loving the pro game database. It is super easy to navigate and study. It seems like a lot of the people who run these awesome websites also hang out here. I don't know who runs that one, but if they are reading this, much kudos!

Thanks again for your thoughts.