European Team Championship

breakfast · Post by **breakfast** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:21 am

I will start a new thread for discussing new system of the http://www.eurogofed.org/teams/index.htm
It's the first big tournament in Europe, played online.

I did not see players list of other countries yet, but in Russia we delegated all top players we have, including Sveltana Shikshina (she was not active in offline Go for several years)

Podiceps · Post by **Podiceps** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:54 am

It is indeed a very strong tournament for Europe. I think alle the top nations are fielding their best players. At lest all teams in the A league has at least one 6 dan player and there are 5 pros playing. The top 4 teams can put at least a 6 dan on every board.

I have the team list ect. as pdf but it should be online soon and I or someone else can link to it.

stalkor · Post by **stalkor** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:08 pm

it doesn't really explain if this tournament counts for your EGF rating, do you know if it is?

LovroKlc · Post by **LovroKlc** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:13 am

stalkor wrote:it doesn't really explain if this tournament counts for your EGF rating, do you know if it is?

they are still talking with rating comission about that

Podiceps · Post by **Podiceps** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:27 am

The webpage is btw up and running. You can find it here: http://www.pandanet-igs.com/communities/euroteamchamps/
There will be team list, tables ect soon (I hope).

gaius · Post by **gaius** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:53 am

I personally think these games (with the exception of the IRL finals) shouldn't count for rating. Internet play is just too different from real-life play.

Anyway, this does sound like a cool plan! 10,000 euros is also a lot of money... When are the player lists made public? I understand that the national go-federations had to make a selection already? Strange that we didn't hear anything about it! Surely, it would be extra cool if all or most of the 6 and 7 dans play!

Also, they're pretty strict!

(5) If a team does not start at all two times in a season, the team is set on the last place of the table, losing all games. No more games for the team in the current season are possible. Additional penalty: No start in the next season and restart afterwards in the lowest league

^ Sounds reasonable for A-league with the 10,000 euro prize money, but how about B- and C-league with no prize money? The penalty is pretty severe...

Javaness · Post by **Javaness** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:31 pm

I don't think that they should be rated either. Mid week games on the internet, straight after you get back from work... well for most of us it won't always be your top level game.

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:33 pm

I agree, EGF games should be played in person, not online

Fredrik · Post by **Fredrik** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:47 am

I think the games should be rated. A international event like this would help to balance out the difference between countries in terms of gor. Also it would help my cause of getting closer to EGF 6d =P

gaius · Post by **gaius** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:02 am

Rating is a measure of one's ability to play real-life tournament games with a reasonably long thinking time. This is why blitz is not rated - many players are structurally worse at blitz than at long games.

Fact is that many players (including myself) have difficulty concentrating when staring at a computer screen. This leads to extra blunders and structurally worse play. That, in itself, I would consider enough reason to not count them as rated games. Furthermore, if these games were rated, players might become extra motivated to use joseki dictionaries or play out sequences on an actual board. It is basically impossible to detect this, so at some point no one will know whether someone is simply good at online play or good at using his illegal aids...

Javaness · Post by **Javaness** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:03 pm

This chance of cheating is something that has always precluded the games being rated in the past.

If a greatly reduced weighting was applied to the games I would be ok with it. They really are not of as high a quality as over the board games if you ask me.

gaius · Post by **gaius** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:46 am

Javaness wrote:This chance of cheating is something that has always precluded the games being rated in the past.

Yep... In fact, because it's completely impossible to detect anyway, one might even argue that it would be better to legalise the use of external tools, such as a board and stones for trying stuff out, as well as joseki dictionaries, just as is fairly commonly accepted practice in turn-based games also. I do trust most players, but there will always be some doubt in everyone's mind during every game, and with a 10,000 euro prize, the stakes are pretty high!

Javaness · Post by **Javaness** » Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:07 pm

Yesterday there was some 'stink' in the game between Dutchland and Czechia.

Rob Van Zeijst played with Ondrej Silt, but it seems that they didn't set up overtime correctly. The rules are very clear - if you don't notice the mistake before move 6, tough luck. However the Czech team lodged a complaint. Who was in the appeals committee

1 Dutch guy, 1 Czech guy and Viktor Bogdanov. Anway this just added to the amusement for me, Rob involved in another byoyomi dispute (but on the opposite side this time) and again appeals committee decimation.

Podiceps · Post by **Podiceps** » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:58 pm

It is right that §3,5) is very clear:

§3,5) If mistakes in colours or time-settings are found within the first six moves the game should be stopped and restarted with correct parameters. After move seven the (wrong) settings are valid for the game. Wrong komi can be adjusted at the end of the game

But then again §3,7) clearly states:

§3,7) A game is lost by time if a player fails to play 25 moves in the defined byoyomi period (10 minutes)

It will be interesting which § the appeals committee finds most important.

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:39 pm

From the two passages in isolation, it certainly seems that 3.5 should win out. While 3.7 states time controls, 3.5 says what to do if time controls are improperly implemented. Is there really a problem, with regard to the text of the rules, not their wisdom, mind you?

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