What makes them 9-dan?

[Violence]

I still don't find that very easy to believe, John. Even taking players in the US like Jie Li, Andy Liu, Thomas Hsiang, Eric Lui, people who don't dedicate their lives to the game, or play full-time, I don't see them needing more than 3 stones against even the strongest of professionals. You really think they'd have difficulty with 4 stones? I can't see that happening either.

[Violence]

Er, I'm sorry... I never really considered Robert Jasiek as a top western amateur... if that's who you're referring to...

[CarlJung]

Interesting question for me: What do you think, why people fail in achieving goals?

...

2.
Because they have goals.

Suppose I set a goal to run 10km in 45 minutes and fail. The failure would be caused by me setting a goal in the first place, not that I ran too slow? How convenient.

[kirkmc]

Interesting question for me: What do you think, why people fail in achieving goals?

...

2.
Because they have goals.

Suppose I set a goal to run 10km in 45 minutes and fail. The failure would be caused by me setting a goal in the first place, not that I ran too slow? How convenient.

QFT.

[Kirby]

I also think that the standards one sets for oneself has to be higher than the standards one has for other people.
I you can live up to your standards this means they are to low, and if you expect anything at all from others this
is probably expecting to much. Since everyone else is living up to this set of stadards but you fail, this will give
what I think is a proper mindset. When people talk about finding guilty ones to punish I think they first and foremost
should start by looking in the mirror.

Everyone has to be their own fiercest judge, because we really are not competent enough to judge anyone else.

(This does not stop me entirely, but that is a moral flaw of mine. )

That's fine, and it seems like a good philosophy to have. To be clear, though, I was not trying to judge anybody. I was trying to share my perspective on the importance of hard work, and that I think that it can bring about good results.

What I was trying to say is that the belief in a nonexistence of free will has old traditions and isn't as ideosyncratic
as some of my other beliefs.

The statements really isn't meant to express empirical truths, think of them as "spiritual truths".
But if you don't like the "eastern wisdom", I will try some "western logic"

Your mind is implemented in the physical universe, not any part of it is outside this universe. All that makes you you
is made up of parts obeying physical laws, it is all a matter of cause and effect. Because of deterministic chaos
there is infinite sensitivity on initial values, and in the bottom we have the true stochastic nature of quantum mechanics,
so there may be a random element but nowhere is any free will to be found.

It's an interesting thought. It's one possibility. I think that the idea of "free will" has been debated for quite awhile. It's hard to say for sure if "free will" exists. I typically live under the context of assuming that it does, but my actions could very well be the result of the natural flow of the universe, yes... Although, I still feel that a good result is more likely to occur if I make an attempt to make good decisions. I'm pretty sure that I could walk out in front of a car and kill myself, but I want to refrain from contemplating it.

[Solomon]

I'm pretty sure that I could walk out in front of a car and kill myself, but I want to refrain from contemplating it.

You ever notice how when you're on top of a building or somewhere that's really high, you get that split-second gut-wrenching impulse to jump? I wonder if free will plays a role in that.

[uglyboxer]

You ever notice how when you're on top of a building or somewhere that's really high, you get that split-second gut-wrenching impulse to jump? I wonder if free will plays a role in that.

Glad I'm not the only one. Yeesh.

[Kirby]

You ever notice how when you're on top of a building or somewhere that's really high, you get that split-second gut-wrenching impulse to jump? I wonder if free will plays a role in that.

Glad I'm not the only one. Yeesh.

Maybe it's an attribute of go players

[Bill Spight]

You ever notice how when you're on top of a building or somewhere that's really high, you get that split-second gut-wrenching impulse to jump? I wonder if free will plays a role in that.

Glad I'm not the only one. Yeesh.

Maybe it's an attribute of go players

Always thinking about life and death, eh?

[Chew Terr]

You ever notice how when you're on top of a building or somewhere that's really high, you get that split-second gut-wrenching impulse to jump? I wonder if free will plays a role in that.

Careful, the two-point jump and larger are not safe.

[mdobbins]

You ever notice how when you're on top of a building or somewhere that's really high, you get that split-second gut-wrenching impulse to jump? I wonder if free will plays a role in that.

Careful, the two-point jump and larger are not safe.

but the 2 building jump is ....

[CarlJung]

I'm pretty sure that I could walk out in front of a car and kill myself, but I want to refrain from contemplating it.

You ever notice how when you're on top of a building or somewhere that's really high, you get that split-second gut-wrenching impulse to jump?

I know a lot of people get that feeling. Same with pushing people out in a busy street. But I don't. Not the slightest. Don't know what conclusions one can draw either way though.

[tchan001]

I bet all of these characteristics are true of 1-dan pros as well.

It would probably take an actual professional to tell us what really distinguishes 9ps from 5ps or 1ps.

There is a new Chinese book written by Kong Jie where he explains 13 of his own games from recent international tournaments which he had won in 2009 and 2010. I would definitely think that this author qualifies to offer some insights on what makes a 9p a 9p. Of course you would need to read Chinese to get the most from the book.

You can read about the new book on my blog here.

This book is currently so new it's not listed on dangdang or amazon.cn yet.

[Marcus]

I bet all of these characteristics are true of 1-dan pros as well.

It would probably take an actual professional to tell us what really distinguishes 9ps from 5ps or 1ps.

There is a new Chinese book written by Kong Jie where he explains 13 of his own games from recent international tournaments which he had won in 2009 and 2010. I would definitely think that this author qualifies to offer some insights on what makes a 9p a 9p. Of course you would need to read Chinese to get the most from the book.

You can read about the new book on my blog here.

This book is currently so new it's not listed on dangdang or amazon.cn yet.

I would love to see this book. Unfortunately, I don't read chinese. Also, I still have no budget.

[tapir]

For an update on the pro vs. ama stories please read this: http://www.361points.com/blog/tag/shusaku-cup/ (about European top amateurs playing and most of them losing on three stones to strong professionals, Ilya on two stones, Pal winning with three stones. However the games were not paid and published games, so the pros may be even stronger in another setting.)

I sometimes get the impression that there are players in the west who might have the right mindset to get very strong, playing honest moves etc. but being teached by their overplaying fellow amateurs they go to rely on greedy go, trick moves, prepared joseki, half knowledge and all those shortcuts and end up somewhere on the way. This is just an impression though.