L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

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Magicwand
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L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by Magicwand »

NOW IT IS 4K ~ 1K LEVEL PROBLEM.

edit: BLACK TO FIND THE BEST RESULT.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . B . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]
Last edited by Magicwand on Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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quantumf
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by quantumf »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . B . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by Cassandra »

quantumf wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . B . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

I don't think so.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O B 2 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 3 B 4 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

EDIT: If the task would have been (as it originally was) to save both marked stones, not only one (with :b3: at :b5: ).
Last edited by Cassandra on Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by Magicwand »

Cassandra wrote:
quantumf wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . B . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

I don't think so.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O B 2 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 3 B 4 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Task is to save both marked stones, not only one (with :b3: at :b5: ).

HUM...i am just copying the question from the website..
i dont think you can save both stone if white really try to catch one.
i guess i should change the problem to find the best result.
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by DrStraw »

Cassandra wrote:I don't think so.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O B 2 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 3 B 4 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Connecting at :b3: doesn't work so well. There is no reason to try to save the one stone becuase the white stones cannot be capture. Try :b4: instea of :b3: .
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by Cassandra »

DrStraw wrote:
Connecting at :b3: doesn't work so well. There is no reason to try to save the one stone becuase the white stones cannot be capture. Try :b4: instea of :b3: .

As already written, I would play :b3: at :b5: .
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by DrStraw »

Cassandra wrote:
As already written, I would play :b3: at :b5: .


But that is not as good. A W stone at M5 instead of a B one prevents B from encroaching any further into the corner.
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by Cassandra »

DrStraw wrote:
Cassandra wrote:
As already written, I would play :b3: at :b5: .


But that is not as good. A W stone at M5 instead of a B one prevents B from encroaching any further into the corner.

:w4: at M5 will be captured.
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by joppon »

If Black plays at L6, I cannot see how white can live.
In this variation the marked stones both live. I think. :)
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by illluck »

@joppon: How do you plan to answer white M7?
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by nagano »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X 2 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 4 X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . , . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

I believe this is the correct answer.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X 2 1 9 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 3 X 4 6 |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . , 8 5 7 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Continuation
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X 1 2 |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . 3 O X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Black is captured.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X 2 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 3 X 4 6 |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . , 7 5 9 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Continuation
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . 6 2 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O O 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X O O |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . , X X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O 3 7 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Same result.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O 1 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X 3 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

If white plays like this, it turns out basically the same as the last two sequences did for Black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . 7 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O 2 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 8 X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

White wins.
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by joppon »

After further and proper consideration, I now believe that both of the marked stones cannot be saved.
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by cyclops »

joppon wrote:After further and proper consideration, I now believe that both of the marked stones cannot be saved.

Just a try:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ , . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . X . . 3 . |
$$ , . X O O 2 0 |
$$ . . O X 1 5 6 |
$$ . . O . X 4 8 |
$$ , O . , a 7 9 |
$$ . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------+[/go]

edit: black a next
I think I am so I think I am.
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by cyclops »

other variants:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc 2@a
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . X . 6 3 5 |
$$ . . X O O a 9 |
$$ . . O X X 1 7 |
$$ . . O . X 0 . |
$$ . O . , . . . |
$$ . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . X . . 2 . |
$$ . . X O O 1 4 |
$$ . . O X X 6 8 |
$$ . . O 7 X 5 . |
$$ . O . , 3 . . |
$$ . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------+[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . X 0 . 2 9 |
$$ . . X O O 1 . |
$$ . . O X X 3 7 |
$$ . . O . X 4 8 |
$$ . O . , . 5 . |
$$ . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . X . . 2 . |
$$ . . X O O 1 4 |
$$ . . O X X 5 . |
$$ . . O . X 6 . |
$$ . O . , 3 7 . |
$$ . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------+[/go]


But maybe, after further and proper consideration, the refutation is in W3 below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . X . . 2 . |
$$ . . X O O 1 . |
$$ . . O X X . . |
$$ . . O . X . 3 |
$$ . O . , . . . |
$$ . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------+[/go]
I think I am so I think I am.
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Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #23

Post by Magicwand »

i started this thread so i will end it :)
how about below?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . X . . 2 . |
$$ . . X O O 1 7 |
$$ . . O X X 4 5 |
$$ . . O . X 8 6 |
$$ . O . , 9 3 . |
$$ . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------+[/go]



below is correct variation for this shape
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . |
$$ . . X . . . . |
$$ . . X O O 1 . |
$$ . . O X 2 3 . |
$$ . . O 4 X . . |
$$ . O . , . 5 . |
$$ . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------+[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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