3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Violence · Post by **Violence** » Tue May 04, 2010 6:07 pm

Approved.

EDIT: Er... wait... wrong Malkovich...

Post by **Jordus** » Tue May 04, 2010 6:52 pm

Glad to see my move was approved :lol:

iSoma · Post by **iSoma** » Wed May 05, 2010 3:37 am

Phelan wrote:iSoma, you're evil!

What? Because I said you can read it? I did not mean to offend you, if it was for you I am sorry. I did not mean it.

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Wed May 05, 2010 4:52 am

iSoma wrote:
Phelan wrote:iSoma, you're evil!

What? Because I said you can read it? I did not mean to offend you, if it was for you I am sorry. I did not mean it.

Hehe, I think it's because you didn't say "yes you can" outside of the hide box, which meant he didn't see it as he didn't want to open that hide box either. On top of that, you clearly quoted him, which makes it even more "Man! I really want to know what he said" :razz:

Phelan · Post by **Phelan** » Wed May 05, 2010 5:16 am

Yep, that's it. I haven't been opening any hide tags that don't explicitly say I can. And it's driving me crazy wanting to know what's hidden there.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Wed May 05, 2010 5:27 am

Phelan wrote:Yep, that's it. I haven't been opening any hide tags that don't explicitly say I can. And it's driving me crazy wanting to know what's hidden there.

Phelan, you can open this:

and this:

Phelan · Post by **Phelan** » Wed May 05, 2010 11:40 am

Very interesting comment, magicwand.

No move yet, just my thoughts.

Man, this move is tough. :-?

My first instinct is to cut, put a stone between his two, but...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm59 First instinct is wrong $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O 2 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It doesn't seem to help white in this area.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm59 Life in gote? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O 4 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O 6 2 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This gives us an eye in gote, if I'm not mistaken,but I don't like it...It seems like I'm missing some sequence around here, although I don't know what.

I'm tempted to play some sente move elsewhere, and let the stronger players sort it out.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm59 Some possible alternatives $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . h X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . f . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . g O . . . e X b . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X a . | $$ | . . . , . . j c . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . d . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . i . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't see anything that doesn't ruin potential, though. :-?

I'm at a loss. I'll look at it after dinner and see if something jumps out.

I'll move after dinner.

iSoma · Post by **iSoma** » Wed May 05, 2010 11:41 am

topazg wrote:
iSoma wrote:
Phelan wrote:iSoma, you're evil!

What? Because I said you can read it? I did not mean to offend you, if it was for you I am sorry. I did not mean it.

Hehe, I think it's because you didn't say "yes you can" outside of the hide box, which meant he didn't see it as he didn't want to open that hide box either. On top of that, you clearly quoted him, which makes it even more "Man! I really want to know what he said"

OMG this gets confusing! I mixed up with the meaning of "reading" in the game and "reading" hidden comments and which are hidden and which not. And I wasn't paying attention to the fact that phelan is playing and can't read those hidden comments anyway :lol:

Oh well, nevermind. I think it's better to not read them anytime soon, as it could contain spoilers. :roll:

Phelan · Post by **Phelan** » Wed May 05, 2010 12:58 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm60 Move 60 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I knew there was a variation I was missing. There's no life in gote there:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm59 Not Life in gote? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O 4 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O 6 O 3 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O 5 2 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm still not sure as to where to play, but I'll try this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm60 second eye... $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 3 . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Wed May 05, 2010 1:14 pm

Violence · Post by **Violence** » Wed May 05, 2010 10:26 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm61 Move 61 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm60 Move 60 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move reeks of fear, like he's afraid of living. I'll just cut this group off from the center, and then we can start playing on the left and lower left.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Thu May 06, 2010 2:24 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm62 Move 62 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . W . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Thu May 06, 2010 6:27 am

Here are the moves I want (preferably all at once!)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm62 Move 62 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . W . . O . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O b . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . b X . | $$ | . . . d . . . . . O . . c O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

"e" is big, but not urgent. "d" is big, but not urgent. Not going to play those just yet. At the very least, big not urgent moves should be left to the weaker teammates as obvious moves to play.

"c" I really really want to play, it's big, and even if it isn't sente, it can't be far off as Black S5 is a response that Black will want to settle everything with points. So, I'm tempted to play the "b" points first (bamboo, then push towards the edge probably), as if Black tenukis the danger on the S4 stone, both "a" and "c" are annoying miai moves.

"a" I just really really really like, and it prepares stuff against the top right, and can't be cut off. If Black ignores locally, the temperature of "b" starts to rise a lot, which may make me happier about playing some of my other moves. As a tesuji, the responses depending on what Black plays are also obvious. This is winning hands down for me at the moment.

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Thu May 06, 2010 8:16 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm63 Move 62 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . 1 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Great, another unclear choice for me to make...

White appears to be basically alive now. We don't have any groups that need help, but we do have some weaknesses. Here's the moves I'm considering:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm63 Move 62 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . c . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . d . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O a . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O e . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a) Mostly just points.
b) defends the corner against a white move one space below b.
c & d) defends the corner, emphasis on converting the top side to points.
e) controls the white stone on the bottom.

All these moves are defensive. Can I find one that threatens something? Hm. (d) actually threatens to kill the white dragon, I think (it allows the eye-stealing tesuji). And d is big for the top. My only concern is a white clamp below b followed by white a, but I think even if that group gets cut off on both sides it can live.

Yeah, the more I picture d the more I like it. I think it even maintains some continuity with Violence's move, continuing the pressure on white.

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Thu May 06, 2010 8:23 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm64 Move 64 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19

3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1

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