Bill Spight
Honinbo
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by Bill Spight Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:59 pm
$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0IMO, any of these
plays are too passive, too concentrated on the left side. I lean towards a pincer myself, such as "a".
The Adkins Principle:At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
Dusk Eagle
Gosei
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by Dusk Eagle Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:52 pm
According to GoGoD, by
we are already in uncharted professional territory.
$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0Expanding the search slightly, with a black stone anywhere in both of the marked regions, white plays:
a: 5 times
b: 3 times
c: 1 time
d: 1 time
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
ethanb
Lives in gote
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by ethanb Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:49 pm
daniel_the_smith wrote:
Big fan of magicwand's move.
Also, he just gave me the best example ever for showing off my website.
Check out the move he just played:
http://dailyjoseki.com/browse/bwpwxibvt As you can see, pros almost never play it without having all three star points.
I gather that it's probably not appropriate on this board. But can Araban punish it? I sure don't know how...
When you say "pros" - with this move you mostly mean "Takemiya." Although it looks like Park Jie-un and Yamashita Keigo have experimented with it some too, and it shows up (in my ragtag database) isolatedly a few times by Kong Jie, Chang Hao, etc. But yeah, I'm pretty sure it's famous as being an invention of Takemiya specifically for the sanrensei.
And geez, I have a lot of dupes. Four of my results for this search are the same game between Daniel Chou and Gary Shen at the 2008 U.S. Go Congress. Need to organize...
Ooooh, this game is interesting - Fujisawa Shuko played it as WHITE... in a very very different situation than usual. Black was Yoda Norimoto, the year was 1992.
$$Wc Fujisawa Shuko vs Yoda Norimoto, 1992-06-25
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc Fujisawa Shuko vs Yoda Norimoto, 1992-06-25Hey, does dailyjoseki.com make any assumptions about order of play or anything? If I pass, then put in the upper left position above, the results make it obvious that this game isn't included among them. I find it hard to believe I have a pro game record SO RARE that GoGod doesn't have it...
daniel_the_smith
Gosei
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by daniel_the_smith Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:26 am
ethanb wrote: daniel_the_smith wrote:
Big fan of magicwand's move.
Also, he just gave me the best example ever for showing off my website.
Check out the move he just played:
http://dailyjoseki.com/browse/bwpwxibvt As you can see, pros almost never play it without having all three star points.
I gather that it's probably not appropriate on this board. But can Araban punish it? I sure don't know how...
When you say "pros" - with this move you mostly mean "Takemiya." Although it looks like Park Jie-un and Yamashita Keigo have experimented with it some too, and it shows up (in my ragtag database) isolatedly a few times by Kong Jie, Chang Hao, etc. But yeah, I'm pretty sure it's famous as being an invention of Takemiya specifically for the sanrensei.
And geez, I have a lot of dupes. Four of my results for this search are the same game between Daniel Chou and Gary Shen at the 2008 U.S. Go Congress. Need to organize...
Ooooh, this game is interesting - Fujisawa Shuko played it as WHITE... in a very very different situation than usual. Black was Yoda Norimoto, the year was 1992.
$$Wc Fujisawa Shuko vs Yoda Norimoto, 1992-06-25
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc Fujisawa Shuko vs Yoda Norimoto, 1992-06-25Hey, does dailyjoseki.com make any assumptions about order of play or anything? If I pass, then put in the upper left position above, the results make it obvious that this game isn't included among them. I find it hard to believe I have a pro game record SO RARE that GoGod doesn't have it...
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project:
http://dailyjoseki.com
Dusk Eagle
Gosei
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by Dusk Eagle Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:04 pm
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc Color insensitive, according to the latest edition of GoGoD, 76% of the time a player plays this kosumi he has a stone at
.
And yes, GoGoD has ethanb's game between Yoda and Fujisawa.
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
daniel_the_smith
Gosei
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by daniel_the_smith Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:19 pm
Dusk Eagle wrote:
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc Color insensitive, according to the latest edition of GoGoD, 76% of the time a player plays this kosumi he has a stone at
.
And yes, GoGoD has ethanb's game between Yoda and Fujisawa.
*looks at the opacity* my website thinks it's present 77.1% of the time. Depending on how big of a box you searched for, I probably found a few more or less games. Eventually I will write something to let me list all games for comparison. It's trivial, but I'm working on getting other features production ready at the moment.
It does appear partially transparent for you, right?
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project:
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snorri
Lives in sente
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by snorri Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:28 pm
Magicwand wrote: $$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0i will try something new. hopefully this will give him some discomfort.
i think i am strong enough to invent my own joseky.
main reason why i played this move:
1. i dont want him to feel comfortable. if i answer simple knight move then i am following his lead.
2. his inexperience will give me edge when we are fighting unfamiliar battle.
3. i love trying something new. and i think it is good move.
The kosumi is interesting. I've looked at a few of Magicwand's Malkovich handicap games, and was interested in his psychological explanations for moves. Of course, if you are giving a sizable handicap, some speculation on how to lure your opponent into a variation favorable to you is probably required. Statements like, "oh, I really hope he plays here" are expected in that situation. But its interesting to see that Magicwand still thinks this way in even games. Only part of him seems to play the board rather than the player. It's quite fascinating.
Solomon
Gosei
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by Solomon Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:42 pm
$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0On a rarity scale of 1 (common) - 10 (Seo Bongsoo-defeating-Cho Hunhyun rare) I'd say E5 is a 7 in terms of how often I see it in my games. It's played here and there, but I don't know it too well other than that Takemiya was a fan of it (I think F5 is also a Takemiya innovation...). Usually there's a stone around 'a' to accompany
, but at least it goes well with
.
Just going to play the simplest move; simple is good.
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
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by Joaz Banbeck Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:28 pm
To observers:
This feels too submissive.
Black can't hane underneath at 4 because 1 covers the cut at 'a' for white:
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WcSo black is left with something like this:
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc...which works too well with D14.
Passing is really simple.
Dusk Eagle
Gosei
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by Dusk Eagle Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:46 pm
@Daniel:
I was basing it on a search using my copy of GoGoD, searching the exact area shown in the diagram below. This gives me 307 results. I then expanded the search one column farther to the right and compared how many results I got, and then tried to filter out the results where a stone was in that column but not on the fourth line (there weren't many). Meanwhile, your site gives 368 results for the corner position, which is pretty close to the number I can get if I reign in my search area to be closer to the corner. So we're basically measuring it two different ways, but our numbers are pretty close.
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
daniel_the_smith
Gosei
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by daniel_the_smith Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:04 pm
$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0Seems ok for both if white had a side star point, as white would be over concentrated. But without a side star point, I think this is wonderful for white, it looks like black invaded way too early...
$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0I think I prefer white here, too. I wonder what Araban will do?
White could block the other side, but this seems to use that 5-5 stone better. If white blocks this way, pros almost always play the first diagram.
So, I don't think 3-3 is right. But Araban can give me like 2? 3? stones so I'm probably wrong.
@Dusk Eagle
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project:
http://dailyjoseki.com
Magicwand
Tengen
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by Magicwand Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:21 pm
$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
what i expect.
if he jumps in...he will regret it.
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
"The more we think we know about Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
Solomon
Gosei
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by Solomon Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:32 pm
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Magicwand
Tengen
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by Magicwand Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:37 pm
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
"The more we think we know about Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
Solomon
Gosei
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by Solomon Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:53 pm
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
plays are too passive, too concentrated on the left side. I lean towards a pincer myself, such as "a".
we are already in uncharted professional territory.
.
. 
